Moderator: Moderators
Dr.Mellifluous wrote:Cassiel wrote:Actually Ravi in all likelihood isn't homophobic. That's the problem. He played the same prank on his shy, awkward gay roommate that he would've played on a shy, awkward straight roommate, with no appreciation for the (it turns out deadly) difference between the two.
Also, nobody ever disputed that as a whole our culture is seriously discriminatory toward LGBT folks. What we said is that it's possible to use words like "gay" and "faggot" without them having anything to do with that shit, and doing so doesn't make us homophobic.
If I have to grab your ass with both hands and full-on mouth kiss you to make this point, I will.
In that specific instance the two kids who streamed the vids are not the ultimate culprits, they're just extremely convenient scapegoats. I forget that some of the stuff I post on FB I don't post here. The only reason that prank (which was despicable but not because he was gay, just because that's an asshole thing to do) had such an outrageous reaction is because of the abuse that Tyler probably had been suffering his whole life.
And yeah, I know no one ever disputed that our society was homophobic, but I had a point that even if it were possible to use words like faggot and homosexual (which according to polling has more of a negative connotation than gay) and not be homophobic, it could still be harmful for the exact same reason Tyler's suicide wasn't solely motivated by an asshole room mate.
Also if you realllllllly want to prove your point you'd ass kiss me.
GraveI wrote:Bullying in general is currently a huge problem in general, and my biggest complaint with the sort of focus of this thread is that at times you make it seem that only the LGBT community is having these kinds of problem, when the issue is far more widespread than that. We had three teen suicides here this year, in a pretty small town (80k), and as far as I know, none of these kids were gay, nor was homophobia the driving force behind their torment.
I don`t know. I`m really bitter about it all. I was bullied also to the point of attempted suicide. It`s not fun whether you are gay or straight or like to get fucked by horses. I think the current focus on homophobia really detracts from other people who are suffering just as much.
I’ll also discuss more current work, including some thoughts about why I believe modern schools place vulnerable adolescents, such as gay teens, at heightened risk of suicide simply by creating an artificial social environment of exclusively same-age peers, one in which specific pressure-points of ancestral conflict are bizarrely exacerbated. “It gets better” for gay teens only because we eventually get out of that unnatural zoo that is high school.
Herosbane wrote:Dr.Mellifluous wrote:tl;dr
I was a bully, but I didn't really focus on gays. I mostly made fun of fat kids. Easier to spot than homersexuals.
MediaMatters wrote:Via Pam's House Blend, I learn that the Washington Post's remarkably poor decision to post Tony Perkins's falsehood laden, anti-gay screed on their On Faith blog (on National Coming Out Day nonetheless) was because they felt they needed to "cover both sides" of "bullying and gay suicide." No, really, they're serious. Apparently they hosted a Live Q & A chat with Dan Savage to discuss "bullying and gay suicide" and his "It Gets Better Project," which is a You Tube channel Savage created in order to reach out to gay youths to prevent suicide. So, to balance Savage, the Post turned to Perkins to respond. Apparently to the Post, gay suicide is a two-sided issue.
GLAAD and the Washington Post had an exchange over Twitter, in which the Post responded to criticism over publishing Perkins' column, by saying, "[W]e're working to cover both sides. Earlier, we hosted Dan Savage of It Gets Better in a live chat." GLAAD rightly replied, "There are not 'both sides' to this issue. Teen suicide isn't a debate-it's a tragedy."
Need I remind you that Perkins's argument was that gay suicide, which often is prefaced by homophobic bullying, was caused not by the bullying, but because "homosexuals experience higher rates of mental health problems in general, including depression," and that the "homosexual movement and their allies" teach kids "that they are 'born gay' and can never change. This--and not society's disapproval--may create a sense of despair that can lead to suicide." To back up this insanity, Perkins linked to studies that showed exactly the opposite of what he claimed. While Perkins is right, "Several studies suggest that gay men, lesbians and bisexuals appear to have higher rates of some mental disorders compared with heterosexuals," he's just wrong that this is pathological, and he's equally wrong that there's no link between this and discrimination. Indeed, the article to which Perkins himself linked immediately goes on to report that "[d]iscrimination may help fuel these higher rates." The article further reported: "In a study that examines possible root causes of mental disorders in LGB people, [Susan] Cochran [PhD] and psychologist Vickie M. Mays, PhD, of the University of California, Los Angeles, explored whether ongoing discrimination fuels anxiety, depression and other stress-related mental health problems among LGB people. The authors found strong evidence of a relationship between the two."
The article also reported that the researcher who conducted several of these studies was "concerned that these findings may give ammunition to people who want to falsely promulgate the argument that gay people are by nature mentally ill." The article added:
For one thing, she says, "these are certainly not levels of morbidity consistent with models that say homosexuality is inherently pathological." For another, the data simply don't prove either pro- or anti-gay arguments on the subject, whether it's that the inherent biology of homosexuality causes mental illness or that social stigma provokes mental illness in LGB people, she says.
It seems that Perkins counted on the fact that people wouldn't click through his links, and apparently the On Faith blog editors obliged.
Joseph Stiglitz once wrote of the 2004 elections:
Most of the media not controlled by the right wing tried to play the role of honest broker, giving equal weight to each interpretation. If one side said the sky was blue and the other said it was orange, journalists would work hard, for the sake of appearing balanced, to find some academic, even a color blind one, willing to say that the sky was indeed orange.
Unfortunately, the same still holds true today, and the Post feeling the need to balance a conversation with a gay man about how to prevent gay suicide with a homophobic rant from a crazy man who blames the gays for the suicides, is just the latest sad example of this fallacy.
theboogleman wrote:Has anyone here read Malcolm Gladwells book Tipping Point?
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests