Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Back in affirmative action.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby NRJyzr » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:23 pm

RageAgainstVoid wrote:People need to fucking stop building troops until I have a new computer, fuck you fucking assholes fucking shit. "Pool me! pool me! pool me! for more of my gay ass fucking shit lag towers" fucking morons dumb dipshit assholes fuckers pool yourself into your ass.

That is all.


I had a game the other day that degenerated my PC to something around 1 fps performance. First time that had ever happened.
User avatar
NRJyzr
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:21 pm
Location: under the third rock on the left.... no, the other left...

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Cassiel » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:35 pm

That means I need to put the debugs back in.
User avatar
Cassiel
 
Posts: 5099
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 2:12 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:31 am

Boots need to stop stacking. On a different note, last night I thought of a replacement passive for BR that would add armor and minor movement speed for how many units/towers have him targeted with attacks or spells, but I'm not sure if that's possible or even viable.
User avatar
Turkey_Slayer
 
Posts: 2328
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:40 am
Location: Ft Lauderdale

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Viikuna- » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:40 am

I somehow feel that it would be too similiar to his ulti. ( Gaining bonuses from being targetted, or damaged or something. )

Tough As Nails is an awesome passive, really. There is just very little armor modificating spells right now. ( Voodoo Glowing Skulls do decerease his damage, though )
No Marlo, no game.
User avatar
Viikuna-
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:27 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Dominant-Male » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:05 am

I really don't have as big a problem as everyone else does with the Blood Mage's passive. It's saved my ass a number of times even though it doesn't apply to spells. Even though the majority of damage done to heroes in the map is done by magical means, Scab Armor still reduces a significant amount of damage. If it was to be replaced with anything, I'd like Bleed to be implemented again, but this time be usable alongside spells. Gaining HP by using Crimson Wake and Tides of Blood would be awesome.

I am heavily opposed to him being strength based though.
Woo
User avatar
Dominant-Male
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:16 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:39 am

I think Scab Armor suits BLM perfectly. It makes him beastly and a pain in the ass to kill, especially for heroes like BR, PQ, etc. BR especially needs this sort of counter since only a few other heroes, namely DotM & Malf, are able to counter him successfully at this moment in time.
User avatar
Death
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:37 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Viikuna- » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:49 am

Scab Armor is great ability.
Its Blood Mage being strength hero, what currently bothers me. I thought it was cool how he is resistant to attacks, but also gains no attack power from his "main" attribute. ( Or something like that. )

Also Mages need to be int heroes, c'mon hey.
No Marlo, no game.
User avatar
Viikuna-
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:27 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Merlin » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:21 pm

I was playing Inquisitor earlier and I thought of some cosmetic improvements for Smite.

1. Give Inq a Smite buff when you charge your sword.
2. Disable Smite until the charge is used. This is more noob friendly.

And these are more out there,

3. Make Inq's Attack icon shiny when he charges Smite.
4. When Smite burns a hero's mana to zero, the text should say: BURNINATED!
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:47 pm

Disabling Smite until the charge is used is a no-go.

If you level up and want to recast Smite to have the effect of your current level, that sort of kills it, doesn't it?
User avatar
Death
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:37 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby theboogleman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:45 am

All spells are triggered i'm pretty sure it's easy to just do dmg based on current level of smite not level of debuff.

I like merlins suggestions, A+.
theboogleman
 
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:39 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Drain_Pipe » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:36 pm

3 things (i'll keep it short but these really vex me....I am vexed...)

1) BR, tone the fucker down, in every aspect.

2) Jimmy's way too strong with his nuke. Tone em down too, make em not affect towers.

3)3 things: Buff the range, Buff the MS, make it damage OR give a decent LONG effect OR STUN . We all know which ability this is. It's not even useful. Don't try and defend it either, it sucks.
-Drain Pipe Out-
Drain_Pipe
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:16 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Zeuter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:51 am

Antavahni?
simply
it is enough to
your task is simple;
just
all you need is to
User avatar
Zeuter
 
Posts: 3760
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:07 am
Location: オランダ

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:16 am

I was thinking he was referring to BoatBoatBoat.
User avatar
Death
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:37 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby boogieman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 am

Merlin wrote:I was playing Inquisitor earlier and I thought of some cosmetic improvements for Smite.

1. Give Inq a Smite buff when you charge your sword.
2. Disable Smite until the charge is used. This is more noob friendly.

And these are more out there,

3. Make Inq's Attack icon shiny when he charges Smite.
4. When Smite burns a hero's mana to zero, the text should say: BURNINATED!


I like the first two assuming when you level up smite and you already have it charged the charged smite either levels up or you can then recast smite.

Also while talking about smite, it should only effect heros as smiting druids makes me cry irl.



Drain_Pipe wrote:3 things (i'll keep it short but these really vex me....I am vexed...)

1) BR, tone the fucker down, in every aspect.

2) Jimmy's way too strong with his nuke. Tone em down too, make em not affect towers.

3)3 things: Buff the range, Buff the MS, make it damage OR give a decent LONG effect OR STUN . We all know which ability this is. It's not even useful. Don't try and defend it either, it sucks.


1) I think head butts targeting should be changed from target hero to target ground, this would make him more fun to play (instead of two target hero nukes) and also mean head butts rather long range can't be abused as much as it is now.

2) Jimmy could do with a slight nerf but not too much

3) I have no idea what you're talking about with this?


Anyway I think pory is pretty strong atm and wouldn't mind seeing his fire flys be a bit more like in N where you could out run them, but with boots the way they are now I guess a bit faster then they were in N if thats possible? And maybe when you detonate beetles and they are above ground they could get a small movement speed reduction.
boogieman
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:06 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:50 am

Headbutt targetting ground has something I've been wanting since O's release. It seems more natural to me, but also it would add some needed skill to BR. On the down side, he may need some rebalancing as it would provide him with ample escape capabilities.

On the topic of Jimmy, Cleaver could take a nerf while Fat Chance could stand a slight buff. Cleaver is absolutely ridiculous early on, but it mellows out later on, assuming he doesn't have 20 orbs of spell power. By evening out Jimmy's sources of power, Cleaver doesn't stand out as much and he would keep relatively the same strength later on, but have a slightly weakened early game since it's absolutely ridiculous being able to nearly 1-shot any hero.
User avatar
Death
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:37 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Viikuna- » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:30 am

IMO its way cooler that Headbut requires an enemy target. It an direct attack, just like Browbeat and Flying Dutchman, it just happens to have more range.

If leto ever comes back with Prana Bindu, or Godspeed or whatever its called now, it would be a perfect ground targgetted dash thingy for you.
No Marlo, no game.
User avatar
Viikuna-
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:27 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Fledermaus » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:12 am

boogieman wrote:
Drain_Pipe wrote:3)3 things: Buff the range, Buff the MS, make it damage OR give a decent LONG effect OR STUN . We all know which ability this is. It's not even useful. Don't try and defend it either, it sucks.

3) I have no idea what you're talking about with this?

I would assume Voodoo Glow Skulls?
ImageImageImageImage
Image
User avatar
Fledermaus
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:02 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby nooK » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:23 am

agreed, vgs should be just back to a plain, normal stun, with lower stun duration but faster projectile speed than before.
nooK
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:38 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Dominant-Male » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:02 am

If it's going back to being a stun, it should get some damage as well and have that be its primary effect. Stun as a primary effect is horrid.
Woo
User avatar
Dominant-Male
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:16 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:10 am

I personally love VGS the way it is. >_>

It combos very, very well with a large variety of heroes. Witch Doctor isn't one that's in need of a buff at all, in my book. He out levels pretty much every single hero easily and should take advantage of that. VGS works in perfectly, and if you fail using it, then you should up your gameplay, not Witch Doctor.
User avatar
Death
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:37 pm

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby nooK » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:53 pm

Death wrote:..., and if you fail using it, then you should up your gameplay, not Witch Doctor.

...
nooK
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:38 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby boogieman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:21 pm

nooK wrote:
Death wrote:..., and if you fail using it, then you should up your gameplay, not Witch Doctor.
boogieman
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:06 am

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Merlin » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:35 pm

BR's abilities are fun to use, but far too easy to aim, and it can be frustrating for other players because they're so effective. Butthead has an enormous range, and in most cases, it's unavoidable, unless you're DR or something, or have some solid terrain to hide behind. On it's own it would be fine, but BR also has a powerful, and unavoidable stun, on top of high attack damage. When you combine all of these things you get a hero who you need to face down then and there, or you will die. One on one, there is no getting away, unless BR runs out of mana.

I'm alright with the amount of damage he dishes out. What irks me is that there is so little a smart player can do to avoid being pummeled into oblivion, and while you could probably decrease the numbers until BR no longer felt like an immediate threat, doing that still wouldn't change the fact that BR requires basically no skill to be effective.

At least one of his abilities should have to be aimed, and because I can't see how you would make Browbeat avoidable, it should be Butthead. A few people, including myself, have already suggested what I think is the most elegant solution. Browbeat becomes ground targeted and works sort of like Bindu/Godspeed, with either a fixed charging distance, or one based on where you click. The crashing part would probably have to be removed for non-building/heavy doodads.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Mengde » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:23 pm

I miss Wind. Make Browbeat AoE. >.>

(as though allies aren't powerful enough already)
I know the pieces fit, 'cause I watched them tumble down.
No fault, none to blame; it doesn't mean I don't desire
To point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication.
User avatar
Mengde
 
Posts: 1254
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Pimping Lair. Status: Super cereal.

Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Drain_Pipe » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:17 pm

Death wrote:I personally love VGS the way it is. >_>

It combos very, very well with a large variety of heroes. Witch Doctor isn't one that's in need of a buff at all, in my book. He out levels pretty much every single hero easily and should take advantage of that. VGS works in perfectly, and if you fail using it, then you should up your gameplay, not Witch Doctor.


That would be fine, except for there is no skill as useless as gvs. I don't mind rewrading skillfull attacks, but when he is the only one who has an ability that has a low cast range, ms and shortlived effect? Come on man.

Name me 1 ability that's a point target that doesn't damage and lasts less than 4 seconds and only affects an aoe of about 300, period. Not a line with aoe 300, just an aoe of 300. He's taking every single situational aspect of any spell you can think of without being retarded, and combining them into 1.

Here's a list of challenges you have to overcome for it to be useful:

1) It's a point target: You have to aim and anticipate where the enemy is going to be.

2) It's a small aoe: you really have to have a clutch shot to hit on it.

3) It's slow: you reeeaaally have to have perfect timing, and cannot hope to hit a fleeing enemy unless they are already dangerously close to you.

4) Effects do not disable enemies: As such, you can't use this to counter enemies, so you have to be sure they're already going to die and just use this as overkill.

5) It's effects are shortlived: This means that on top of 1-4, you have to make sure it's timed right so allies can get their spells off to use the debuff effects.

6) It's synergy with his other abilities is non-existent/redundant. You throw this at spawns and can do 1 of 3 things: attack, PW, TDCD: Attacking is worth shit because he's a spellcaster and thus lacks any sort of physical assault ability. It sucks with PW sucks because PW deals relatively high enough damage on its own to drop spawns and the bonus 20 dps doesn;t amount to much on heroes late game. Dropping them 1 hit earlier is useless. TDCD can own spawns on its own so taking extra damage is redundant and unnecessary.

Now lets compare it with any wave spell:

Challenges:

1) Wave spells move fast, so a little bit of timing is all that is needed.

2) They deal line dmg so you have a decent area of effect in order to hit your enemy.

3) they deal damage so you don't really have to think too hard about when to use them.

4) They can easily be reflected, so choosing the right opponent is key

Now with BR's skills:

Challenges:

Head Butt:

1) Loses control when being cast, brings you to the enemy: don't initiate against a hero surrounded by his team, unless your team is there to back you up.

2) Don't cast when you're low health, unless you can kill the enemy, or have Blood bath ready to go.

Brow Beat:

Same as headbutt.


So now we have gvs which requires you master a bunch of these things AND require a good team to make it worth as insurance on an almost guaranteed hero kill. Then we have most every other spell in the game that works fine without any other heroes being present, requires no skill to hit, and will always be deadly as long as people don't try using them under the short list of dangerous scenarios that might arise.


An aside: If we're trying to make all heroes powerful in their own way, that's fine. But right now, WD does not push well enough to make him a threat when many other heroes can easily do the same with less effort. Since he's low hp, if he can't even hope to drop 2/3s of the pickable heroes present, then his role as a pusher becomes useless as you can send 1 hero to keep him busy, drop the top and other lanes, and then deal with him when you feel like it. He's annoying when you don't focus on him, but otherwise, as soon as he's pushed, he dies right away.

In short, buff the fuck out of WD and then when he's actually OP'd, then tone him down. None of this fooling around giving a little tweaking him every time until he's painfully satisfactory. What's wrong with overdoing it first and then toning it back? We do it with every other hero that needs nerfing. From his first nerf, he became one of the only heroes in game that did not possess an ability to break channeling.
-Drain Pipe Out-
Drain_Pipe
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:16 am

PreviousNext

Return to Tides of Blood

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron