Damn you TOB...

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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Cassiel » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:52 am

Andromeda's very usable and has been for a while, assuming it still works with the retail version of SC2. I was writing everything in it the whole time. Enrichments, for example, are an Andromeda feature that lets you treat Galaxy types like classes, so you can just throw around stuff like:
Code: Select all
unit.armor += 1;

This greatly improves the flow of scripting. My Andromeda version of Unit Properties was only about 20 lines, plus a bunch of constants.

At this point Andromeda really only needs function pointers (as in a vJASS-like hack) and a replacement for Galaxy's horrid timer implementation. Currently timers don't take a function parameter; instead, you have to create a trigger and give it a timer expiration event.

Are you interested in working on AoB or planning to do your own thing Viik?
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Viikuna- » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:32 am

AoB for sure.

I surely got some damn good map ideas of my own, but I got no motivation to really start anything like that. Havent even really played any customs yet, because that damn campaign is just too hard on brutal.

Then again AoB for sc2 would be something really cool. After O Ive just felt like I really wanna see what you guys can do with sc2 editor.



What kind of hero systems you have in mind, btw? Remaking wc3 one or some more original with blood meter like stuff? Attributes?
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Cassiel » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:27 pm

Duly noted. Fled? Tirion? You guys never say anything in these threads.

My big thing is I want an active team, not me and some helper elves. If we move forward it will be with revision control (SVN? Git?). Everyone will have up-to-date access to everything.

So, in theory we could have:

Moi
erwt
erwt's team of artists
o
Bartoneus
Viik
windigo
Tirion?
Fled?

That's workable, with windigo in all probability focusing exclusively on website stuff. o started playing with the terrain editor last night, so we'll see what he comes up with. After terrain, he could assist me with SFX, or even free me from SFX completely, in addition to other art stuff. T, Fled and Viik could help me with coding, as they did with O, only more so. There's enough to data editing that Bartoneus could keep busy production-wise with just that, if our plan is to keep a steady stream of content coming. The Galaxy actor documentation is so sparse that I'm not sure we'll ever be able to script that stuff, or if it's even possible.

Viikuna- wrote:What kind of hero systems you have in mind, btw? Remaking wc3 one or some more original with blood meter like stuff? Attributes?

Of course I'd like to get the Blood Meter in there eventually. Attributes I'd like to keep the same. Smart hero, fast hero, strong hero: those are the archetypes. The attributes are one of the few things Blizzard really nailed in WC3. There's all kinds of room to play with their derived values, though.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby windigo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:36 pm

I'm either 100% in or not in at all (I just can't work that way). First and foremost my priority would be the game - website stuff is definitely secondary.

100% in means I'm as much a design lead as anyone and my decisions carry as much weight as anyone else's (in other words, Cassiel's).

ToB's most glorious days were when me and Cass worked on it full steam. A lot of that was simply the timing of it but that was a very deliberate decision by me. I very much made ToB into what it was. Granted, Cassiel has since then recreated it entirely and for that deserves every bit of credit. Frankly, it's gone way beyond what I thought the editor would ever be capable of.

Somewhere after about a year me and Cass stopped working together on it. Our visions differed. He wanted perfection and I wanted quick updates and map popularity. He pulled a Favre and pretended to retire and I figured everything was done. It disappoints me to this day because if we stuck together we'd be the ones with dev studios making League of Legends and Demigod, etc. I knew the power of DotA at that time and strategically I wanted to compete directly with it. If I could turn back time obviously I would have not walked away.

So if I'm in, I'm in. I want to see Cass at my house at 4am as we push out an update that's already 3 days later than promised. I want to work as a team and in person when possible (fly out here if you need to guys - we'll figure something out) I think it's valuable.

I'm not saying this because I'm a power hungry son of a bitch. This is the only way you'll get anything worthwhile out of me. If I don't feel as part of the project as the next guy, then I'm just not invested and all interest whithers away.

So those are my terms.

I won't be surprised if most of you don't give a rats ass about any of what I have to say or care the slightest for my input on the map. I also won't be hurt, so don't be afraid of offending me. (I promise I won't ban you from the forum :wink: )
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Ensabahnur » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:25 pm

I love to help give me something to do.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Cassiel » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:49 pm

windigo wrote:I'm either 100% in or not in at all (I just can't work that way). First and foremost my priority would be the game - website stuff is definitely secondary.

I tried to get you involved in O the entire time we were working on it. I don't doubt your desire to be involved, but I do doubt your will to follow through on that desire. You are not the first man made soft by marriage, sir.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby windigo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:44 pm

Marriage got nothing to do with it. If I spent time working on the map instead of playing TF2 I would have built 3 ToB's by now.

After I was so far out of the loop with O it was pointless to try and get back into it. I didn't have the passion at all at that point and it would have taken a month just to get back up to speed.

I didn't really expect that I'd be interested in working on SC2 but after I played it I had a change of heart. I really wish I would have installed the beta months ago.


Dude, pick up your phone. I have something important to ask (not map related)...
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby V1g0r » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:13 am

I'm sitting on the edge of my seat for this, been lurking this thread for ages and cant wait to see where this goes. If you ever need a tester, I'll most likely be available. Lets just hope you are strong enough to conquer Blizzard's retarded popularity system. O heck I guess we're all here to make that happen. That's where the communtiy can make a difference.

O, and I'll be sure to borrow erwt my CD-Key so he can actually install the game and go online, like in dem good old days :>.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Tirion » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:36 am

I want to help, but I need to start learning the new editor.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby gandalf37 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:29 am

I would offer help but with work, planning for my wedding and other shit going on I doubt I would be dependable. Plus, I'm all the way up here in Canada :P .

I think you guys have a great opportunity to capture the SC2 AoS market here. The DotA clones suck right now and the original makers of DotA who would be best at remaking it for SC2 have moved on. You guys are the best team to make an awesome map right now imo.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Fledermaus » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:31 am

I'd probably also be willing to help out in any way I can. I don't actually have the game yet and probably wont buy it for a while, I should probably take my friend up on his offer to install with his version and play as a guest, that should at least allow me to use the editor right?
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby EzekieL » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:46 am

Do you guys have any idea how many games I did not buy because of ToB? If you make a map for SC2 I'm sooooo selling my Xbox. I would offer to help but my art skills are not up to par with erwt and I really have nothing else to offer. :(
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby erwtenpeller » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:50 am

I've seriously got 3 classmates that know tob, know my work on tob, and have played O. I've been hyping them up for doing something on sc2 for like a year now. Some of them are doing internships and won't have much time, but i'll be able to churn out some concept work and i've been upgrading my modeling skills.

Image

What i would need in order to work "properly" is very detailed descriptions of the characters. For the concept phase just very clearly what they're supposed to do and represent, later on I'll need full descriptions on their movesets as well so we can start putting together the animations.

I however won't start producing anything tangible untill a first version is out and this thing gets rolling. No offense to anyone, but i'm not waiting 3 years to see my work in action again, especially not if i'm getting folks to help me.

That being said, i really want to make a black firebat with a pheonix decall on it ^^
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby erwtenpeller » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:07 am

I hope you basters arn't getting my hopes up for nothing. I swear this is the shit that causes school shootings.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Fledermaus » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:37 am

I love Mortimer so much.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby nooK » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:55 am

So just plain normal AoS? Quite hard to compete with games like HoN or LoL, I guess.

Btw cass: Why is the galaxy editor so shitty? I thought they were hyping it so much, having xml based object data, way better language, nearly no limitations, good documentation, test maps etc.. none of that is really true?
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Mengde » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:23 am

I'm not buying SC2 for a while yet, but if you guys need a writer for flavor text, tooltips, that kind of trivial stuff, I'm here.
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To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:37 am

Fledermaus wrote:I love Mortimer so much.

x2

If need be I'm ready to fill in my role as fanboy, but as of right now I still haven't even seriously considered buying SC2.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby o » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:46 am

that's a sick concept erwt.

you do characters I'll do environments haah.

been working on a blizzard concept:
Image

I need to work on my concept skills but am really just trying to polish up a 3d portfolio by next summer.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby erwtenpeller » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:54 am

Dude that looks really good. Did you do the textures on that as well?
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby o » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:03 pm

Yeah everything is handpainted. I'm not a fan of photosourcing... but it does have it's place depending on the look a game is going for. There is just a richness you can only achieve when painting it yourself, plus I feel more satisfied when I look at what I've done.

It's still a big work in progress, I'm not nearly done, it feels way too empty atm but you get the general idea.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby erwtenpeller » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:15 pm

Yeah, its great work, a lot better then the concept art you've been showing (no offense!)
I really really dig it man! I hope we can one day come to a point where you can bring one of my concepts to life, that would be insane.

How's your character modeling skills? And your animation ability?
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby o » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:23 pm

haha dude I'm not gonna make excuses I've put my concepting skills on the backburner for some time. 3d's really been my focus for the last year or two.

I'm a pretty decent character modeler, though my focus is really on props and environments I know what's what in the character world. Provide an awesome concept and I can do my best to translate it to 3d. As far as animation, I certainly know the fundamentals but it's the weakest skillset I have. However if we're talking animating for SC2, the camera is far enough away, and the poly count is low enough that I could certainly manage.

oh yeah i forgot we're in space, well here's a gun.
Image
lets make a space cowboy game.
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby Ensabahnur » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:27 pm

o wrote:lets make a space cowboy game.


i lol'd

nice work btw
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Re: Damn you TOB...

Postby erwtenpeller » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:28 pm

o wrote:As far as animation, I certainly know the fundamentals but it's the weakest skillset I have. However if we're talking animating for SC2, the camera is far enough away, and the poly count is low enough that I could certainly manage.

That's ok i know a dude that's a brilliant animator that will want to animate for us once we've got some balls rolling. He's used to maya though, but for sc2 3dsm is a lot more practical.
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