Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby nooK » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:49 am

I dislike how you gave FD a slow. Now it's even easier to boat and one more undodgeable slow.. feels like FD is just in instead of JRH because of the graphics..
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby theboogleman » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:20 pm

It is jrh with a new graphic.

I have to stress the point about mages, they're way too good. Lower hp and armor.

Also dr, haunt is pretty much useless. Please make it give her a buff(+dmg, +spd, anything). Also her mana burn should do more dmg(2x mana burnt). And it should do dmg no matter if they have mana or not.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Zeuter » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:22 pm

After having played DR, I have to say: she is not fun to play at all.

She has no killing power whatsoever. The only useful thing about her is her ult, to bring a dead stop to sieges. Haunt is complete crud, as most damage to heroes in the game comes from spells. Mana burn is unnoticeable as her attackspeed/animation is too slow. Her range is too low - if she tries to get in range to attack, she gets wtfpwned by spells due to her fragility. The hotkey for Hush, well.. Yeah, change it to Q.

In fact, I wouldn't mind all spell hotkeys changing to QWER.

Anyway, in the end DR is just very subpar compared to other heroes and immensely boring to play. Increasing range, (that bloody hotkey on Hush) and her attack would help a great deal. Haunt could use a replacement as well, although this might change as the heroes/items will become less spell based later on.
Last edited by Zeuter on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby nooK » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:49 am

theboogleman wrote:It is jrh with a new graphic.

you kidding me?
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:04 am

I´ ve read people bemoan a supposed irrelevance of physical damage output.

Have you guys tried playing the DR with 5 of those Blades that have +12 dmg and +15 critical hit, as well as sockets in which you all put either +6 agility or +10% attack speed gems? Congratulation you then make 200-250 physical + manaburn dmg each hit, hitting 2-3 times a second at healthy range. You then have the hero with the by far highest and surest dmg output in the game, people die left and right, a tower goes down in like under seven seconds, you look to be not ganged and wait for your mates to stun someone to kill in three seconds. The difficulty is getting her the money, but that´ s the trick in playing her, and it can be done, especially with pooling. She´ s more of a physical dps item depend hero, and there gotta be those too, and various items are already there for that.

Altogether, people keep calling for some huge item tree, but I have yet to see them explore what is already there. There is so much you have yet to discover and really effectively utilize, item builds that completely define the success or failure of a given hero, current play is not anywhere near utilizing that. Where are the guides, where are Best-Of replays demonstrating advanced play?

Or when have you seen someone use the resurrection scroll for some paltry 700 gold, do you realize what single-handedly overwhelming advantage this item is in good teamplay? but I´ ve not seen a single use of it by anyone. Everyone kept whining about the loss of consumables, and here they never use the last and easily most powerful one, utilizing the hero corpse system, one of the coolest defining stand-out features of the game.

Though I did see smart play with hero abilities, especially giggling at Zeut´ s nice Emissary abuse in one of those replays.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:09 am

You also need to develop the right mindsets for playing the heroes. it´ s not just about using the skills, you must think like that hero you play, it has a soul of play, the way you move, the kinds of opportunities for which you look out, what situations are favorable and which to avoid, the context of using your skills. For example with the DR, she is a cunning hunter seeking to pick of weakened stragglers, and a disabler hunting in special packs. Move and see and use everything about her to that goal. Also think of her ultimate not like a battlefield breaching spell, but rather like a very useful hunting tool: Trap enemy heroes in their own spawns, don´t see the turned spawns as damage output, see them as blockers to disrupt enemy tactics, even more since they gain extra hp from being turned. And think about which heroes you´ d rather engage and which not, and which teamates you want to stay with. Stay maneuverable with her, go in and out, look for quick action windows, since you will go more extra dps than hp. Use her ethereal ability when you burned a victims mana down, and it´ s free game for you to hunt him back right into the thick of towers and troops for that last few hits. Time the disable-arrow well. Outmaneuver, demobilize, decapacitate, finish off your prey. She is a very situational and creative character, playing her is more about reading the field. Her play affords more effort, it´ s a challenging hero type for the more experienced, not all straightforward but more surreptitious, knowing the terrain, knowing capabilities and limits, give her some more time and pick up on those thoughts and it may turn out very rewarding. If this still doesn´ t work out, maybe she does need adjustments, but try to really utilize her for what she is right now first.

This is just an example of how you guys need to rethink your approach to the game, get serious, more competitive, good hunt!
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby theboogleman » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:31 am

I know what you're trying to say void, but she's just so boring. Pimping her out with +physical damage items makes her a real beast, but who isn't a beast when whored out? She's just so boring and flat, her ult is the only fun thing about her. She has one clickable skill and 3 passives(you click a button but they're still passives in my book).

You're right you need a different mind set playing her, I played her in two 6v6s before against good players and she's different to every other hero. Every battle I felt useless, sure I got some kills but more or less they were a result of everyone else
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:51 am

theboogleman wrote:Pimping her out with +physical damage items makes her a real beast, but who isn't a beast when whored out?

But everyone is another kind of beast when pimped out, that´ s the point. As far as I know, currently she is the only agility hero in the game with focus on attack, and ranged for that to boot, so she can actually try ignore life and protective equipment and concentrate on all out damage, altogether advantages that make her the single best dps dealer in the team, and her team should use her like that, and if they do coordinate resources and effort like that, it´s plain deadly and her kill score gets high for sure.

theboogleman wrote:She's just so boring and flat, her ult is the only fun thing about her. She has one clickable skill and 3 passives(you click a button but they're still passives in my book).
If you say so, but it also does not distract your concentration from movement, formations, opportunities, which are all interesting on their own, that is the lure of her style. You are on the hunt, not on the shooting range, I´ve seen many play too static, just because she has no movement spell does not mean she´ s just supposed to stand there, be playful and hop around inbetween your shots.

I defend her a bit for now to counterweight opinions and encourage giving her some more tries. I´ d rather see that and some minor adjustments like increasing manaburn before demanding all out rework of her.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Merlin » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:19 am

I think she's alright. Not as much fun to play as some of the other heroes, but alright. The trick, as RAV pointed out, is to stack Agi and get a few Supreme Cutlasses.

I just wish she didn't have to stand still for so long during her attack. It really messes with her run 'n' gun style. in my opinion.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:24 pm

Thing is, she really needs that gold to be as effective as you're making her out to be. With that much gold, think of how much more effective a hero like Jimmy gets or how many extra spawns/upgrades you can acquire. It simply isn't right that she requires so much more to be as effective as other heroes.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:40 pm

She doesn't require that much more, you can continuously buy the cheap normal blades until you are ready for Cutlas, that brings you very well through the lower levels. And considering the power of the Cutlas Supreme on her specifically, it's currently not even that expensive, it's in the middle, so it really is realistically doable to stack that shit.

Another thing is that if you buy her a hush blade, you can combine that with your own hush spell to prolong silence, and with haunt you become a really annoying fucking bitch. After the silence, if they are still alive, they are out of mana, and when she goes haunt she's plain invulnerable to that victim.

Ok, she is not all whiz bang on her spell effects like other characters, but that wouldn't fit her style, not everyone does have to go boom bang all over the screen, we gotta keep variety and she's really good at what she does, she owns hard when you play her right, and owning shit is pretty fun to me.

Maybe increase the life gain to troops on her ultimate, maybe it should double or triple life on lvl3, to keep up with the all overpowering aspects of other ultimates.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:43 pm

Edit: I just wrote something about critical hit doubling her manaburn, I checked again and now think that's wrong, so ignore what i said about that, heh. Other things remain.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Death » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:47 pm

I think what I find most troubling about her is the range on Hush. The majority of spells out range Hush, so by the time you silence your target, they can nuke your ass off and take about half your health or stun you into oblivion.

A slight range in the increase would help her tremendously I think, especially considering it's a heavy part of her gameplay and it is only a single target disable as well as her only nuke.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Merlin » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:22 pm

Haunt would be pretty sweet if it increased PQDR's spell damage while active.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:40 pm

Haunt would be awesome if it was completely redesigned.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Cassiel » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:01 pm

The negative spell resistance will probably end up getting replaced with a positive progression in something.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Drain_Pipe » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:17 pm

Why not split abilities into physical and magical, and have haunt allow her to evade the physical ones? (ie: like she can evade hook right now). This would allow her to use it very effectively to counter heavy physical hitters, like br or mariner.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Dominant-Male » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:05 am

Could we remove the armor granting orb and just add in a shield item with 2 sockets instead? It seems a lot better aesthetically. Also, beef up the longsword please.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Galefury » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:53 am

Drain_Pipe wrote:Why not split abilities into physical and magical, and have haunt allow her to evade the physical ones? (ie: like she can evade hook right now). This would allow her to use it very effectively to counter heavy physical hitters, like br or mariner.

She already is invulnerable to BR in Haunt. At least she was a few versions ago.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby boogieman » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:52 am

I don't really understand what all the fuss over DR is about. I find her fun to play and strong in ganks and fights that involve less then six heros total.

She lacks a bit in large team fights but makes up for it in other areas.

I'm not sure what the plan is with mercs but if at some stage master necros were added back in she would be almost as strong as she was in N.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Dominant-Male » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:54 am

One thing I think could make Phantom Queen stronger is if her arrows dealt damage first, then burned mana, allowing her phantom arrows or whatever they're called to deal the extra damage to units with no mana.

They'd obviously need to get a slight reduction in power but it's an idea.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Viikuna- » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:14 pm

Dont sure if I like BloodMage being strength hero.. I kinda liked how massing strength never incereased his attack damage.

Which Doctor being intel hero is kinda cool, though. Played him Drain_Pipe style, and just bough multiple reliquaries for massive Voodoo Glowing Skulls spammage. ( Its awesome )
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:57 pm

People need to fucking stop building troops until I have a new computer, fuck you fucking assholes fucking shit. "Pool me! pool me! pool me! for more of my gay ass fucking shit lag towers" fucking morons dumb dipshit assholes fuckers pool yourself into your ass.

That is all.
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby Zeuter » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:11 pm

Upgrading units is better anyway..
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Re: Feedback - 1.23 (6/14/2010)

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:19 pm

You tell them, you FUCKING tell those bitches! FUCK!!!
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