Bugs - 1.21

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Re: Bugs - 1.20

Postby Tirion » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:52 am

Cassiel wrote:
SamuraiWindu wrote:There is a bug that entails using Phantom Arrows in conjunction with Haunt.

That's intentional, not a bug. Tirion says it's necessary for some reason I don't recall.

As of patch 1.17, the only way to override ability orders is by using stop. :(

Blizzard wrote:* Fixed units in the middle of a non-channeling spell such that they will now auto-queue all orders until the spell is complete.
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Re: Bugs - 1.20

Postby Cassiel » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:18 pm

Lawl Blizzard bugs. I'm especially amused by the item thing. You guys should keep playing 1.19 for now.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:59 pm

1.21 should fix those crashes from 1.20. Gogogo.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Drain_Pipe » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:18 pm

I don't know if this is really a bug but the tooltip suggests PQ's arrows gain bonus mana burn from spell % increase, although they don't actually burn more mana. Does it just affect dmg from mana burned or what? I'm not sure how this one's supposed to interact with spell bonus dmg. Or maybe it's just an un-updated tooltip? No replay is really needed, happened any time she shot a unit with mana.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:30 pm

Looks like I just forgot to implement Spell Power into the script.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:33 pm

It hasn't been downloaded or played many times, just release another.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Merlin » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:52 pm

:(
FATAL ERROR! Exception: 0xC0000005 (access_violation) at 0023:6F4C2657. The instruction at '0x6F4C2657' referenced memory at '0xDD803C00'. The memory could not be 'written'.

Didn't notice any triggers, but someone said Jean had Scab Armor.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby SamuraiWindu » Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:56 am

Haunt’s primary effect is extra damage received. Increases to spell power reduce this extra damage. It can be reduced so much that Haunt actually gives you damage reduction, or so the game says. As the Phantom Queen’s spell power increases, via Voidstones, it feels like no damage reduction is taking effect. This is particularly apparent when Haunt’s damage reduction supposedly reaches 100%.

This is achievable by giving the Phantom Queen 6 Hushblades with 4 Voidstones each. At +5% spell power per Voidstone, this make a total of 120% spell power. With Haunt at 5th level, 20% of the spell power nullifies the extra damage and the other 100% spell power grants 100% damage reduction.

At 100% damage reduction the Phantom Queen still take damage. The damage received appears to be the same amount of damage she receives with no damage reduction.

The attached replay demonstrates this starting at 25 minutes in.

I am not sure what the intended effect is, but the effect the game displays is not what is taking place.


Another thing I noticed is that Haunt applies different amounts of damage reduction per portion of spell power bonus depending on Haunt’s level. For example, 1 Voidstone worth of spell power bonus provided 1% damage reduction at 1st level Haunt, 2% at 2nd level, 3% at 3rd level, 4% at 4th level, and 5% at 5th level. Why the inconsistency? Is this what is intended? I would expect 5% damage reduction per Voidstone on every level of Haunt.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:03 am

SamuraiWindu wrote:Another thing I noticed is that Haunt applies different amounts of damage reduction per portion of spell power bonus depending on Haunt’s level. For example, 1 Voidstone worth of spell power bonus provided 1% damage reduction at 1st level Haunt, 2% at 2nd level, 3% at 3rd level, 4% at 4th level, and 5% at 5th level. Why the inconsistency? Is this what is intended? I would expect 5% damage reduction per Voidstone on every level of Haunt.

Spell Power affects Haunt the same way it affects other spells. +5% Spell Power adds anywhere from 4 to 12 damage to a Phoenix Wake depending on its level, right? The number in gold gets the bonus. Haunt works a little differently in that this number decreases as you level the ability, but the principle is the same: the value of that 5% goes up each level. All abilities that don't apply Spell Power to a static value work this way, and the only inconsistency would be if Haunt didn't.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Fledermaus » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:23 am

It is odd that level 1 (100%) is only decreased by 1% with 1 voidstone though..
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby SamuraiWindu » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:17 am

Cassiel wrote:
SamuraiWindu wrote:Another thing I noticed is that Haunt applies different amounts of damage reduction per portion of spell power bonus depending on Haunt’s level. For example, 1 Voidstone worth of spell power bonus provided 1% damage reduction at 1st level Haunt, 2% at 2nd level, 3% at 3rd level, 4% at 4th level, and 5% at 5th level. Why the inconsistency? Is this what is intended? I would expect 5% damage reduction per Voidstone on every level of Haunt.

Spell Power affects Haunt the same way it affects other spells. +5% Spell Power adds anywhere from 4 to 12 damage to a Phoenix Wake depending on its level, right? The number in gold gets the bonus. Haunt works a little differently in that this number decreases as you level the ability, but the principle is the same: the value of that 5% goes up each level. All abilities that don't apply Spell Power to a static value work this way, and the only inconsistency would be if Haunt didn't.


I am not sure what you mean by “a static value,” but you need to reconsider how such spells like Haunt should apply spell power if you want to use spell power properly.

A spell like Phoenix Wake is straightforward as its primary effect is dealing damage. Phoenix Wake is easy to augment with a percentage of spell power. You simply multiply the base damage by effective spell power. Haunt is less intuitive in how to properly apply spell power.

Haunt’s primary effect changes the amount of damage the target receives. 1st level Haunt makes the target receive 100% extra damage; 2nd level, 80%; 3rd level, 60%; 4th level, 40%; and 5th level, 20%. Simply multiplying the effect % by effective spell power is gravely counterproductive. Instead, one must consider how the % affects the true expression of damage received: effective hit points.

As such, 1st level Haunt brings effective hit points to 50%; 2nd level, ~55.556%; 3rd level, 62.5%; 4th level, ~71.429%; and 5th level, ~83.333%. Applying effective spell power to effective hit points would give the true spell power of Haunt.

As a result, one Voidstone worth of spell power (+5%) would change extra damage to ~90.476%, ~71.429%, ~52.381%, ~33.333%, and ~14.286% respectively. The change in extra damage would then be ~9.524%, ~8.571%, ~7.619%, ~6.667%, and ~5.714% respectively; a grave difference from the 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, 5% change that Haunt currently applies. Using 5% change in extra damage for every level would be a much closer estimate than what Haunt currently does. However, it is important to note that the proper application of spell power (through effective hit points) is not additive.

Two Voidstones worth of spell power (+10%) would change extra damage to ~81.818%, ~63.636%, ~45.455%, ~27.273%, and ~9.091% respectively. The change in extra damage would then be ~18.182%, ~16.364%, ~14.545%, ~12.727%, and ~10.909% respectively; or ~9.091%, ~8.182%, ~7.273%, ~6.364%, and ~5.455% per Voidstone respectively. So, two Voidstones provides less damage reduction per Voidstone than one does. This disparity becomes even greater with more Voidstines.

Twenty Voidstones worth of spell power (+100%) would produce a change in extra damage equal to 100%, 90%, 80%, 70%, and 60% respectively, or 5%, 4.5%, 4%, 3.5%, 3% per Voidstone respectively.

In short, you need to do a little math to convert base extra damage to effective hit points, then apply effective spell power, and finally convert back.

If you are interested, the attached Excel document uses the math for this (I had to compress it in a .rar to fit).


Another point of concern is why Haunt’s effects are proportioned in respect to % extra damage and not effective hit points, but that is a topic for a different discussion.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:46 pm

SamuraiWindu wrote:I am not sure what you mean by “a static value,” but you need to reconsider how such spells like Haunt should apply spell power if you want to use spell power properly.

No, you need to reconsider what the proper use of Spell Power actually is. Effective life is emphatically not it. This is exactly why you don't see WC3's cumbersome armor system repeated in SC2. Effective life is good math but bad game design.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:53 pm

Merlin wrote::(

Have there been any more crashes?
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Merlin » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:11 pm

I only hosted 1.21 once last night. Do you want more error codes and replays of crashes?
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:28 pm

Memory addresses might tell Blizzard something but they're useless for us (edit: well, other than confirming that it's the same error, I think). I didn't see anything problematic in the replay either, so I want to know if there really is still a crash issue or if that was an isolated thing. If some new frequent but unreproducible crash has appeared since 1.19 then 1.19 may just be the last stable version that ever gets released.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Merlin » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:50 pm

Just played two games without crashing. Perhaps the first crash was just a freak occurrence.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Drain_Pipe » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:04 pm

2 things:

1) The weird speed boost ability granted by using the reliquary is still present. I'm not sure at all what causes it and can't remember if it happens every time I use it, although it usually happens most often when I cast juju bees from it. Maybe other forum members can take note if this happens to them as well?

2) This one I'm not sure it if is intentional BUT... Fugue takes control of pain ward, and you will end up taking damage instead of enemies. Honestly it's an interesting counter measure but I'm not sure if it's fair conisdering you can no longer cast beneficial spells on the ward. Anyways...

That's all i got.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:20 pm

Fugue definitely is not meant to take control of wards. I did some weird fiddling with wards when I made them stop taking damage from spells, and I think I probably accidentally undid that when I was fixing the last Pain Ward/Fugue issue you reported. They probably take damage from spells again too.

For the speed thing I need to be able to reproduce it, like before.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Drain_Pipe » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:23 pm

Here's an interesting one That's happened to me twice. I think it has something to do with the mechanics related to the "in air" evasion granted to battle rager and Mariner when performing their aerial abilities. Since you cannot cancel these once they've started, he'll end up performing the ability regardless of spells cast on him. It gets interesting, though, when Jimmy eats him in midair. While jim jim still takes the dmg and effect from the spell, so does BR. But what's interesting is BR is moved directly to Jimmy and is attackable, yet is taking damage and is still disbaled by jimmy's ult. We ended up owning him because of it.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby mehz » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:05 am

I just got that bug with Jimmy and BR. BR's icon was inside Jimmy taking the jew damage so he got eaten. However there was another BR outside that was disabled also taking jew damage. When JEW ended, eaten BR came out of Jimmy and the disabled BR disappeared.

Replay. Happens around the 9:00 min mark.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Drain_Pipe » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:51 pm

My guess would be that pirate and jimmy would get a similar effect, as well as malf. Anything that disables heroes a certain way seems to cause that weird out-of-Jimmy devour bug.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Cassiel » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:25 pm

He shouldn't even be able to devour those units, but I guess there could be a millisecond window after JEW is cast. Even then, though, I can't replicate what happens in that replay. When I test it I'm able to devour disabled units and units being moved around just fine. The trigger seems to be when Browbeat finishes casting, so it could be from removing the disable. Silly Blizzard...
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Drain_Pipe » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:28 am

Well it does seem to happen right as he finishes the effect, and jew seems to still fire.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby NRJyzr » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:31 am

Several of us played a few games last night. No major crashes, but several folks dropping. However, can't be sure it's not just usual bnet issues.

Trudge on we shall.
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Re: Bugs - 1.21

Postby Death » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:38 pm

One thing that is reproduceable easily and doesn't seem like it should happen is that Blueshift has absolutely no effect on Fireflies. It doesn't seem realistic that the little fiery buggers should be impervious to time, especially whenever Malf can simply Tornado away to ignore the damage for a while, and gameplay-wise, it is DotM's ultimate.
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