Is there anything good about men?

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Is there anything good about men?

Postby Dr.Willy » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:08 am

http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

I'm not sure if there is much to discuss about this article, but I found it was an interesting read.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:32 am

Alright folks, I just go ahead and save you the time.

Summary: Women are boring unless they are pretty.

Exceptions shall be awarded the title: "Honorary Man"
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Cassiel » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:07 pm

You're a true Scotsman, you are.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:32 am

I really need a scotch now.

Fact 1:
Yesterday Merkel--the ugliest woman alive--won elections.
Every commentator agrees it was the most boring campaign ever with the lowest voter turnout ever.
Chance? Correlation? I don't think so!

Fact 2:
It's Oktoberfest--best beer in the world, funnest season of the year, its own season--and I can't go there although I'm like twenty minutes away from it while others go there who are days away from it.

Fuck You:
ugly woman in charge + no alcohol = that's what I call depression, economic whatever.

And now get this:
her vice chancellor and minister of foreign affairs, he's a neoliberal fag--I mean really.
I can't wait watching him do negotiations with motherfucking Putin&Co.

So we got Mrs. Ugly and Mr. PuffTuff trying to have national interests be taken seriously. She is heading the parties called Christian Union--did I mention she is the daughter of a pastor?--and he is giving head to radical neocons.
Where is my gun? Oh right! I live in a country that doesn't want us to get any! guns, games, erections...
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:10 am

Seriously, what is it with europe? One of the worst recessions this world has ever seen, caused by wanton negligent untamed casino capitalism, and everyone cries their eyes out for months, blames and curses the suits, protests and writes angry articles and letters, and on elections who do they vote in? The fucking rightwing market radicals! And give the social parties their worst decline since founding! All across europe! It's like one day the fat bigwigs all sat together on a kitchen table, and thought like "Hrmm, I don't know 1000000% profit is nice, but isn't there a way to have.. you know.. more?", "Hrrm, how to get more money if there isn't more money?" .. pause.. but then another goes "Hey I got an idea! We start grabbing all the money that isn't there--yet!" and another goes "Holy shit, you're right! Since our system relevance is 'too big to fail', people have no choice but to pay up real current money to cover the fake future money we took!", "Yeah, it's like money counterfeit, but better!" "It's like we just steal their money from right under their fucking pillow, and they wake up, and yet they are so tired they can't do anything about it but go to sleep again!", "but hey, are they really gonna let us get away with that in the end? people could get angry and vote in the damn socialists, and they'd take everything away from us again!".. long silence.. but suddenly someone jumps up and says: "Hey, I know! Let's go all reverse psychology on them!"
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Kaz » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:04 am

Let me guess, they presented a simple solution to a complex problem and they got elected?
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:41 pm

That's too clumsy and complicated, like men. Women are elegant:

She presented no solution and did not bother us with problems.

Any of those things are just annoying and ghastly and make for migraine.

Obviously, such an attitude makes you very popular these days over here.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:38 pm

Come to think of it, even I start liking her for that. damn those sly women..
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Dr.Willy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:52 am

RageAgainstVoid wrote:Seriously, what is it with europe? One of the worst recessions this world has ever seen, caused by wanton negligent untamed casino capitalism, and everyone cries their eyes out for months, blames and curses the suits, protests and writes angry articles and letters, and on elections who do they vote in? The fucking rightwing market radicals! And give the social parties their worst decline since founding! All across europe!

I cant speak for the rest of the world, but in germany many of the banks that got hit hard were semi governemt-owned banks. On the other hand, the Deutsche Bank led by untamed-casino-capitalist Joseph Ackermann did relatively well.
So - why not?

Kaz wrote:Let me guess, they presented a simple solution to a complex problem and they got elected?

Yes they did.
But having a look at the german tax system again, any change will make it simpler, no matter what you change.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:50 am

Dr.Willy wrote:I cant speak for the rest of the world, but in germany many of the banks that got hit hard were semi governemt-owned banks. On the other hand, the Deutsche Bank led by untamed-casino-capitalist Joseph Ackermann did relatively well.
So - why not?


This sounds like taken straight out of the mouth--undigested and raw--of one of Ackermann's "professional consultant" lobbyists, a statement of Half-Truth conveniently remixed for a specific-interest agenda. Since you are a senior member, I will now take the time to explain the world to you, dissect your statement, and conclude to a much more sound truth.

Banks today do not exist as monolithic solitaires, the whole financial system is intimately inter-weaved in such density that it is often impossible to discern who exactly begins or ends where. This eminent lack of transparency has been abused through custom-tailored Financial Product packets that are very complex compounds of interests, an illusion of security by spreading risks--to the point where it it is impossible to say who carries which risks--wrapping into plausibility a very dangerous speculation, effectively offering a deal that is too good to be true but also too good to miss out. The clever creation of such Financial Products to sell any kind of liability to anyone became the very heart of the business. This scheme is supported by a System of Credibility, the financial rating companies, that played along, either simply because they shared into the benefits, or because they simply were over-strained to see what is going on.

Or to put it more bluntly: the fine art of financial work that generated all these unreal profits was buying a pile of shit with an embedded cracker which fuse is already on fire, repacking it into a beautiful box that looks pretty stable, slapping a label on it that reads "Best birthday surprise ever!" that shows a picture of gold and jewels, and selling it for a lot of money to someone dumb enough to believe your words "just look at the picture! The price I ask is actually nothing compared to what you get!", and while the victim's thinking, some people "happen" to casually stroll down the street to tell you by-the-by "hey, psssst, you, yeah, I just bought it yesterday, he's right, it's awesome! was the shit! I tell ya! don't miss out, but hey, don't tell anyone else, it's a secret"; and yet some of the poor sobs will actually realize that they were bullshitted even before they opened it and quickly try to resell to someone even dumber, hoping that it lasts just long enough for that, and so the "presents" make their round until shit explodes--or all explodes to shit on the same day.

The fact is that many people started to get a bad hunch about this procedure long before things went down the gutter, but the complexity of things made it almost impossible to see when and where exactly it may break, and others simply started to.. believe. The financial system became a black box of wonders that is prayed to everyday in rituals, and somehow money jumps out of it, the longer and more the better, no question asked, it just works.. and with all those computers and numbers and blinking stuff, I mean this is the future right?, and label terms that sound so scientific, things just work on their own, and after all there are always the experts that will jump in and save the day, right?

Now in light of this, guess who the street dealer and who the sad bum was? For the most part, it turns out the private banks are the scam sellers and the partly-state-owned banks are the victims. This is what happened:

The private banks became speculation banks for which private costumers are only an insignificant part of their profit, actually a small margin annoyance, but that are maintained to keep up the pretense.
But the part-state-owned banks fill in with having the specific mission given by the state to be there for the citizens, for the costumers. But beyond just service, these state-banks have to generate return in interests too to offer costumers some sound reason to bring in their money, and after all the bank has to cover its own costs of operations, especially since as mentioned servicing private costumers is very costly with low returns.

Now behold: the bad thing is that the private speculation banks get all the high-qualified expert personal that knows how to generate that necessary profit to cover all this, or that can judge well which speculation offered to the bank are sound and save--they get these people because private banks can offer much higher salaries, ridiculous ones, compared to state banks who are supervised and have to be responsible.

So if privates have all the experts, what do have state banks? Money. Tons of it. From the state and from the citizens.

And so the inevitable comes as it musts, the hungry speculation private banks draw on that: their experts abuse the shit out of the inept state-banks by selling them those "professional" Finance Products, lending themselves as consultants and support, and in doing so taking all their sky high smelling shit and dumping it into the state-banks, while themselves looking unblemished. And all the dirt that still happened to stay on them on doomsday was simply left over they weren't quick enough to dump unto the state-banks.

And now we come back to your ridiculous statement:
"Private banks are standing relatively well compared to state owned banks, so evidently the privates did it right?"

really? really?

with the implied follow up thought "state banks did something wrong?.." and "is it perhaps the state owned banks that created the depression?" and the implied conclusion "there you go, this would all have never happened would the state not meddle in market affairs!!!! I knew it, the state and the socialists are at fault for all of it! and now they want to shift responsibility unto the private sector to further their communism agenda!!!! it's a conspiracy!!!!! "

right? right?

Dr.Willy wrote:Yes they did.
But having a look at the german tax system again, any change will make it simpler, no matter what you change.

Dude, c'mon, drop the charade, you don't actually know what you are talking about.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Dr.Willy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:21 am

RageAgainstVoid wrote:[text about banks]

So in summary the state banks left their area of purpose and expertise, well knowing that in the end they would not have to face the consequences.

RageAgainstVoid wrote:Dude, c'mon, drop the charade, you don't actually know what you are talking about.

The german tax system is the most complicated in the world, there's no doubt.
Other than that I didn't talk about anything ... no idea which posting you read.
But then ... ohh, new I get it, you're just trolling.
Well then nevermind, here's your fish
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:18 pm

Well I wanted to go kinda easy on you, but..

Dr.Willy wrote:So in summary the state banks left their area of purpose and expertise, well knowing that in the end they would not have to face the consequences.

What kind of summery could you possibly do without reading comprehension?
The private sector designed the whole financial system from the ground up to be a game of scams, constructing a whole system of reputation to go along, all such that even the best of the best have great difficulty to discern what's going on anymore, and just playing along for how long it lasts, all of this mostly on the back of the state banks because they simply have no choice to play along like everyone else, caught in this set up web made to abuse them, or else they are outplayed and must cease to exist anyway--once in critical mass, the system became a self-runner where there is no question about playing or not playing, you must play. I'm not sure you even understand that without proper supervision and regulations, these big-ass bubbles are inevitable to explode terribly and that there will always be a sea of losers, even if there are no state banks, just that in this particular constellation the state banks lend themselves best to that this time, and for this reason were specifically targeted, they didn't "leave their area of expertise", they were scamed, simple as that. What are you trying to allude to next? That the victim of a scam is at fault by himself? That fraud is only "in our heads"? Helsinky syndrome much? Why do you think then we have all these laws against fraud and bringing those criminals to justice? and now think, considering all that was said, why should private banks be dealt with any different, when it is clear as day that what they did was essentially a systematic fraud on largest possible scale disguised as proper conduct? And now we are voting in the people that have the declared intention of letting those institutes get away with it, essentially just worded, you know, less criminally sounding? Even worse, making these frauds even easier by "improving" the system with more freedom? But hey, that's alright, after all, as you implied and keep implying, the private banks did a fine job! and the state banks just didn't know what they are doing, right? No wait! the private banks are in truth the victims of the unresponsible amateurish state banks, right? Why do they have to look so tempting! And women are at fault for being raped!

So what is your point again? Why did you enter discourse with me? Did you have something to say? Didn't you want to give explanation to why the market radical is voted in, did you not implicate that it might not be bad, it may even be better since the privates where better off on the collapse? It is clear that better supervision and regulation is needed to keep the worst collapses away from the back of tax payers--there are lessons to be learned. It is also clear that the market radical parties try to undermine this, even that for them their lesson is that it must be "improved" by being "even more free". And your reply drew on this with an implied rationalization on cause and solution, and this wasn't by chance.

Dr.Willy wrote:Other than that I didn't talk about anything ...

See, you do talk, you just have no clue about what you are talking, that's the problem.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Dr.Willy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:20 pm

I'm really thinking about changing my name to "Void", just 'cause. What do you think about that?
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:46 pm

The hell, it's called the fucking Bloody Stump, not the Cushy Tea Party!
And the things you "didn't say", you said with an authority that invites what you got.

But hey, I'm not all evil. Here, I even throw you a bone:

What is more interesting to think about is seeing the collapse in the greater scheme of progress for mankind.
The growth and collapse of the markets are cyclic--there's always some bubble--and everytime doomsday happens it is "solved" by creating an even bigger bubble somewhere else, instead of adapting the game rules to which we play. So you can say that the whole ordeal is swinging up and up with each decade and century, natural to the human tendency for speculations as part of a search for the lotto jackpot extreme of ultimate greatness, and having one extreme winner and an army of losers is part of that recipe and excitement that brought us this far. Regulations may be a softer road, but also a much slower and less exciting road. You can argue that many breakthroughs of the past wouldn't have been made, or made so fast, without this risky out-of-hand speculation turbo-boost. And then the question remains, is this acceleration and excitement worth the risks? Would we today be willing to give up the cultural and technological advancements that were made available so fast through this, on the backs of all the losers? Wait more years for the "blessings" of modernity? Even of today, how long are we willing to wait for even greater advancements that we seem to be in dire need of? Regulation makes things saver, but also a lot slower. Cyclic crashes that get bigger and bigger are part of the game that brought us today. The question is what extremes are we willing to endure? is there a golden compromise that gives enough extreme and enough security, such that it plays out fast enough and ultimately best in the long run? These are things worth thinking about, deeply and honestly. But right wing market radicals are the last you can expect to do that.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Kaz » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:53 pm

Part of the problem is public banks are beholden to politicians who typically don't know shit but want results no matter what.

This is what happened to this province's public fund manager. They lost billions because the premier was demanding a crazy high ROI and he more or less threatened to fire the direction and hire new people who would get it for him
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Dr.Willy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:23 pm

I'm truly sorry RAV, I got distracted there for a second and then I wanted to be polite and not interrupt your extensive stream of redundant explainations, insults and confuse argumentation.
But it seems you're done for the moment.

Right, banks.
Poor state banks to be exact. Poor state banks, thrown in a system they never wanted to participate in, abused by the others and now blamed by the people.
Would you think we could have gotten around that if we had more women in the management of these banks?
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:57 pm

For having nothing to say, and meaning nothing in particular, you sure keep dragging on a lot, Willy.

Kaz wrote:Part of the problem is public banks are beholden to politicians who typically don't know shit but want results no matter what.

This is what happened to this province's public fund manager. They lost billions because the premier was demanding a crazy high ROI and he more or less threatened to fire the direction and hire new people who would get it for him


Yeah, this pressure on many a bank from various directions, some from extern some from within, some on bigger state banks, some on small fry privates, to stay competitive with the big international fish, the big time speculation privates with the best of the best and the biggest of the biggest who set the course that now suddenly no one wants to have known about like some weird UfO mass amnesia, is what drove everyone else into buying those poisoned Financial Product packets that have been designed not on accident by chance or because no one knew better, but on unerringly dedicated express purpose, together with the propagated myth on all serious channels and political stages that if you don't have RoI of >25%, you are supposedly falling apart, simply by not keeping up with the rest of the pack. Just like in the good ol' times when gold rush fever gripped the people. And even though many knew there must come the big crush, everyone wanted to be like the big guys that get fat by frauding smaller guys with selling them supposedly legitimate bullshit, and thus thought to themselves "well, like the big guys, I will jump from the bandwagon just in time!" The whole thing was, like so often, set up like a pyramid fraud, just this time it was banks who should have known better but turned victims like any everyday joe, and this is really the most funny thing of the story, it shows that no kind of expertise protects you from your own innate foolishness, anyone can be tricked the same like anyone else. The big speculation private banks showed off their insane RoI that "proves" they found a magical recipe, a revolutionary way of conducting business with mad profit for everyone, and everyone wants to get in on that, or is pressured into getting in on that, but ends up being the very source that's sucked dry to feed that very showed off RoI, realizes it, panics, and in turn tries to do the same fraud on others to get the poisoned shit out of their financial balance sheet as fast as possible, and so it is repacked again and again and reached around and grows bigger with more participants, until one day everything collapses into nothing. The fun thing that many still don't realize is that the big world finance collapse was just a much bigger variation of the Maddoff thing, but is now spin-doctored so that supposedly no one is responsible and no one knew what was going on, and anything else is just wild conspiracy theory, and the ones who pulled the strings are this time the ones that got away looking about fine instead of going to jail, and thus are the ones "advising" governments on what went wrong and what must be done now. It's the same old tired shit as always, every time people say they grew wiser or are too clever for that, and yet it always works perfectly fine in a new variation, since it draws on most basic human instincts.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Dr.Willy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:42 pm

RageAgainstVoid wrote:For having nothing to say, and meaning nothing in particular, you sure keep dragging on a lot, Willy.

The only difference really is that I don't occupy that much space in the database.

RageAgainstVoid wrote:The fun thing that many still don't realize is that the big world finance collapse was just a much bigger variation of the Maddoff thing, but is now spin-doctored so that supposedly no one is responsible and no one knew what was going on, and anything else is just wild conspiracy theory, and the ones who pulled the strings are the ones that got away looking about fine, and thus are the ones "advising" governments on what went wrong and what must be done now. It's the same old tired shit as always, every time people say they grew wiser or are too clever for that, and yet it always works perfectly fine in a new variation, since it draws on most basic human instincts.

Well - many people earned well in the situation that preceeded the crisis and even the leftist government was happy about the income they earned through the taxes.
So - do you expect an even more socialist government to prevent such crisises from happening? And if so would this be enough to outwight the "damage" done by an overall less powerful economy?
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:56 pm

Dr.Willy wrote:The only difference really is that I don't occupy that much space in the database.

The only difference really is that even with the little you write, and one would think this would be much easier then, you can still not produce a good ratio of worthwhile information to occupied space.

Dr.Willy wrote:Well - many people earned well in the situation that preceeded the crisis and even the leftist government was happy about the income they earned through the taxes.
So - do you expect an even more socialist government to prevent such crisises from happening?

This is not about who would have prevented what, how do you expect such speculation to further your point? This has always been about who is better fitted to learn the better lesson from now on, make the better conclusion for further action, you know, because we discussed the new election results, and how the market radicals got in power, and if this is the right answer to the problem, to the crime done by their like-minded cahoots, and we did not discuss weird-ass alternatively possible history about who would have made a better job foreseeing and handling the situation--and really just how ridiculous is that argument, even if a leftist gov in some europe nation failed to engage the problem proper, what exactly makes you think a market radical gov would have fared any better instead of worse, seeing all the information we have today about the incident, seeing as, among others similar, it was a market radical government in the US who set the defining impulses for a massively growing credits bubble, and eventual crunch, in the first place, and doomsday erupted there first and started off the chain-reaction that shook the world, all while still having a market radical right wing gov in charge overseeing it, and now, essentially their twins got voted into office in europe and you seriously insinuate they would have done better, and try to construct some argument out of this about the future? And you told me I have "confuse argumentation"?

Rather we talked about the consequence that must now follow to make an example to the perpetrators, instead reaffirming them or even easing up further such behavior, and about the overall weirdness of how the situation turned out and is actually handled now--justice or lack thereof and all.

Dr.Willy wrote:And if so would this be enough to outwight the "damage" done by an overall less powerful economy?

I already anticipated this and discussed it way above in great length, don't try to sound like you just picked on purpose the gold nugget on your own, you chicken-headed bore, since evidently you can't even think one step ahead of yourself, it is so much more comfortable for you to just indulge the complacence of your current opinion and how you can bend it over to rationalize your choice and feel good about it, and rest motionless on it. It is obvious you haven't read anything worthwhile on that matter, let alone are interested in finding any worthwhile truth, since such is way too laborious to your taste.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:19 pm

*sigh* I'm feeling kinda nostalgic now, it's all like in the good ol' days, way to have a throwback.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby Cassiel » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:15 pm

Why can't we all be excellent to each other and party on, dudes?
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:21 pm

He had to go there, he had to fucking go there!!! Now whom do I have to suck off to get him fucking killed!!!!!!!!

Besides, it's a domestic affair: I hate on my fellow citizens best.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:49 pm

*GRMBL* FINE HE SHALL HAVE AND ENJOY HIS FUCKED ELECTIONS WIN.
thatgoddamnedneoconsvotingjackassruiningmyshit
I got stuff to do and places to be.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:50 am

Yeah, whatever... I'm sorry Willy. I made you into a symbol representing something or someone, because I needed you to play this role for me that day, kind of a psychological compensation for something amiss. It's not that I actually hate you or really meant the insults, I know you're a smart guy. And neither am I actually political or something, or need things to be this or that, and for all I care the world can burn to flames tomorrow or carry on however it wants to be. Do me the favor and just mark this event as the very heavens hurling bolts of lightning on you for no particular reason other than that tension needs to unload somewhere.
This is the unholy wrath the world must endure for not letting me drink myself into oblivion on Oktoberfest.
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Re: Is there anything good about men?

Postby unwichtig » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:59 am

When my friends talk about die Schwarz-gelbe Koalition, I know schwarz -> CDU. But what is the gelb?
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