Global warming fact or fiction?

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Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby reddwhite » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:51 pm

Well it is like a religion at this point. I just thought I would ask while i been drinking.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Zeuter » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:17 pm

TheRaven7 wrote:That's about as retarded as "atheism is like a religion".

It's more in line with saying that intelligent design is science, though. (Which, if the OP would believe in it, would not surprise me).

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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby reddwhite » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:16 am

All im saying is that people are blindly led by al gore and green profiteers to the beating drum of global warming.

If it was real and backed by facts not flawed climate models then there should be no problem with open debate like any other branch of science. Instead unless your for it you cant get funding, and your research is ignored.

I myself have done alot of research on the subject and the things I have found were contrary to man made global warming. For instance they are blaming co2 emissions, even though at present we are at one of the lowest co2 averages in geological history. ... 38ed4f85e3

This is one of the things im talking about when I say I think it is all made up. You never hear anything about it on the news though.

It just seems to me that $1,000,000,000,000 a year for green tech is worth its wait in gold as long as nobody catchs on. Even if all the evidence says otherwise.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby reddwhite » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:51 am

Sry for anyone that was dead set on man made global warming. The facts are in. It is not real.

I know alot of peeps are going to say crazy shit to me about this but read the report and the links from it yourself. It is was and always will be made up!!!

Poor al gore, looks like he can go back to being the champion of global cooling again like back in the day. Maybe he can reinvent the internet while he is at it :).
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Kaz » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:54 am

Letting Al Gore and the greens profiteer? That's hilarious, especially if you think they have more to gain from it than polluting industries have from keeping environmental regulations lax.

There's been plenty of studies on global warning. The only ones that found out that it was not happening or wasn't man-made turned out to be financed by industries with a vested interest in obtaining that particular answer. Oops.

Hahaha that link is hilarious. 700 international scientists say global warning is a lie!! Holy shit!! 700! You could probably easily find 700 scientists with the same name who would say just the opposite.

There's no vast conspiracy to hide the truth or some such. Stop buying into the conservative/christian persecution complex. The reason why there's no debate is because the evidence is overwhelming. The real debate is how catastrophic the effects will be, and how soon.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby reddwhite » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:53 am

I actually made this link as a kind of joke. However im not joking that I believe man made global warming is is a hoax. I have read alot of very interesting new reports that are out this year. As of march of this year the average temp of the world hasnt gone up in either 10 or 12 years. It has actually gone down.

About the 700 scientists, there were only like 59 or somthing for the un ipcc report. Alot of which have now changed sides. Most of the hundreds of scientists that worked on it did even sign it because the panel officials (not scientists) changed what it said after the paper was drafted to make it say global warming was manmade. That is the reason only like 59 scientists signed it. More then 700 scientists think global warming being manmade is a crock of shit. I will have to find it again, but there are over 30,000 scientists 9,000 somthing of them with phds that think it is a hoax for money.

I believe them to be correct. More money goes to global warming in america every year then helping the homless and underprivaleged. I mean we are talking about over a trillion dollars a year worldwide. Hell I wish I would have thought of it first.

At the moment though, there is no proof either way. I havent seen any proof of global warming though. All I have seen is proof that the worlds natural climate cycle cools and warms all the time. Ice melts and reforms. As is the norm and has been for much longer then we as a species have been around.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Dr.Mellifluous » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:30 am

Listen bro, I'm pretty stoned right now, but I'm going to lay some revelation on ya. Global warming is real, it's a natural process. And like that pimple on your back between your shoulder blades you can't quite get a good enough grip on to pop, we've made it worse with our meddling. We need to apply topical creams and hot compresses and not keep picking at puss, before that thing turns into a massive boil that scars us for the rest of our lives and girls won't look at us anymore because of it so we become barren vehicles for more pimples. Like RBM. You don't wanna be like that, so accept that back pimples you can't reach are real. And global warming. Or whatever.
a particle is a thing in itself. a wave is a disturbance in something else. waves themselves are probably not disturbed.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Kaz » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:59 pm

Dude seriously. The 50 or so were hired and tasked to write the report. It's not the total of sum of scientists who think global warming is real, so coming around and saying there are 700 who disagree is totally fucking meaningless. The fact that they need to pimp out the number shows they're desperately trying to scrape as many people that can remotely pass as scientists as they can

The money spent on green stuff is peanuts compared to pretty much everything else. Industries, especially oil, spend a lot more lobbying against any sort of improvement in environmental regulations

What you do mean you haven't seen proof of global warming? Have you made any effort at all or are you expecting everything to be spoon fed to you? CO2 is a greenhouse gas and huge amounts of it are pumped in the atmosphere everyday. The ice caps are visibility melting. Here. Try this site. This could be good start
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Merlin » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:34 pm

Here's some quality Youtube stuff on the subject from potholer54, a pretty well-known science popularizer over there.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Zeuter » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:02 am



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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Herosbane » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:58 pm


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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby reddwhite » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:12 pm

I wont quote anything from wiki since it isnt fact based. I will though, give links from
reliable these. ... series.png ...

Both of these are data collected form the university of colorado boulder. Showing that sea ice is growing not shrinking, but you wont hear about it because it doesnt support global warming.
During the question and answer session of last week’s William Schlesinger/John Christy global warming debate, (alarmist) Schlesinger was asked how many members of United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) were actual climate scientists. It is well known that many, if not most, of its members are not scientists at all. Its president, for example, is an economist. This question came after Schlesinger had cited the IPCC as an authority for his position. His answer was quite telling. First he broadened it to include not just climate scientists but also those who have had “some dealing with the climate.” His complete answer was that he thought, “something on the order of 20 percent have had some dealing with climate.” In other words, even IPCC worshiper Schlesinger now acknowledges that 80 percent of the IPCC membership had absolutely no dealing with the climate as part of their academic studies.

Makes you wander just a little how great the ipcc is huh? I guess that nonexperts in anything to do with climate must know more then these guys guys with degrees in climatology then .

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can
speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that
man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely
upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface
system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to
receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190
studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”

“Whatever the weather, it's not being caused by global warming. If anything, the climate
may be starting into a cooling period.” Atmospheric scientist Dr. Art V. Douglas, former
Chair of the Atmospheric Sciences Department at Creighton University in Omaha,
Nebraska, and is the author of numerous papers for peer-reviewed publications.

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself
solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate
changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in
man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present
alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major
businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” -
Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the
Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

“Earth has cooled since 1998 in defiance of the predictions by the UN-IPCC….The
global temperature for 2007 was the coldest in a decade and the coldest of the
millennium…which is why ‘global warming’ is now called ‘climate change.’” -
Climatologist Dr. Richard Keen of the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences at
the University of Colorado

Meteorologist Brad Sussman, a member of the American Meteorological Society
(AMS) and Seal holder and past officer of the National Weather Association (NWA),
is currently with WJW-TV in Cleveland, Ohio. Sussman, a meteorologist for over 21
years, proudly calls himself a “denouncer of the very-flawed man-made global warming
theory.” Sussman wrote to EPW on December 29, 2007 and explained that he “debunks
[global warming] theory by using logic and humor.” According to Sussman, “global
warming has been happening on and off for millions of years. Millions of years when
mankind wasn't driving around in SUVs and using coal for electric power!” “Believing that
mankind is unequivocally responsible for global warming is the ultimate arrogance. Sorry
to be humble, but we’re not that special. When global warmers talk, listen to their words.
The new catch phrase is: ‘The debate is over.’ The only people who say ‘The debate is
over’ are people who are afraid to debate,” Sussman wrote. “’The debate is over?’ If we
used that line of thinking, man would have never gone to the moon, the Wright Brothers
would have never flown, and we’d still think the Sun rotated around the Earth,” he

A team of scientists signed a June 11, 2007, Cornwall Alliance “Open Letter”
debunking man-made global warming fears. “Natural causes may account for a large
part, perhaps the majority, of the global warming in both the last thirty and the last one
hundred fifty years, which together constitute an episode in the natural rising and falling
cycles of global average temperature. Human emissions of carbon dioxide and other
greenhouse gases are probably a minor and possibly an insignificant contributor to its
causes,” the scientists declared. “Reducing carbon dioxide emissions would have at most
an insignificant impact on the quantity and duration of global warming and would not
significantly reduce alleged harmful effects. Government-mandated carbon dioxide
emissions reductions not only would not significantly curtail global warming or reduce its
harmful effects but also would cause greater harm than good to humanity–especially the
poor–while offering virtually no benefit to the rest of the world’s inhabitants,” the open
letter explained. Scientists signing the “Open Letter” included: James F. Drake, Ph.D.
(Atmospheric Sciences), Project Engineer, The Aerospace Corporation, Papillon, NE;
Charles Clough, M.S. (Atmospheric Science), Th.D., retired meteorologist, Bel Aire, MD;
Guillermo Gonzalez, Ph.D., Department of Physics and Astronomy, Iowa State
University, Ames, IA; Kent A. Chambers Ph.D., Assistant Professor of Chemistry and
Environmental Science, Hardin Simmons University, Abilene, TX; Victor Goldschmidt,
Emeritus Professor of Mechanical Engineering, Purdue, University, West Lafayette, IN;
Gary O. Gray, Ph.D., Professor of Chemistry, Dean of the College of Science and
Mathematics, Southwest Baptist University, Bolivar, MO; Ronald C. Marks, Ph.D.,
Associate Professor of Chemistry, North Greenville University, Tigerville, South Carolina;
Michael R. Salazar, Ph.D., Assistant Professor of Chemistry, Union University , Jackson,
TN; and Daryl Sas, Ph.D., Professor of Biology, Geneva College, Beaver Falls, PA.

I love this one, cant count the phd's but I know it is alot.

Scientists from 40 countries signed the Manhattan Declaration on Climate Change,
sponsored by the International Climate Science Coalition (ICSC). The 2008 declaration
states in part, “Global climate has always changed and always will, independent of the
actions of humans, and carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant but rather a necessity for all
life; the causes and extent of recently-observed climatic change are the subject of intense
debates in the climate science community and that oft-repeated assertions of a supposed
‘consensus’ among climate experts are false.” The declaration concludes, “There is no
convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is
now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change.” A sampling of scientists
signing the declaration as of June 19, 2008, included: Wayne Goodfellow, PhD (Earth
Science), Ocean Evolution, Paleoenvironments, Adjunct Professor, Senior Research
Scientist, University of Ottawa, Geological Survey of Canada; John Brodie, BASc.,
MASc. (Metallurgical), P.Eng., Director Environmental Affairs, British Columbia Railway
Co., Surrey; Atholl Sutherland Brown, PhD (Geology, Princeton University), Regional
geology, tectonics and mineral deposits; Paul Copper, BSc, MSc, PhD, DIC, FRSC,
Professor Emeritus, Department of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University Sudbury,
Ontario; Les McDonald, RP Bio; Senior Impact Assessment Biologist, BC Environmental
Protection (retired), Consulting Aquatic Biologist; John W. Bales, BA, MA, PhD
(Mathematics, Modeling), Professor, Tuskegee University, Waverly, Alabama, U.S.A.;
Gregory J. Balle, B.E., MSc., PhD. (Joint Aerospace Engineering and Geophysical Fluid
Dynamics), Pukekohe, New Zealand; Romuald Bartnik, PhD (Organic Chemistry),
Professor Emeritus, University of Lodz, Lodz, Poland; Colin Barton, PhD, Earth Science,
Principal research scientist (retd), Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research
Organisation (CSIRO), Melbourne, Victoria, Australia; Matthew Bastardi, BSc
(Meteorology, Texas A and M University), Florida, U.S.A.; M.I. Bhat, Professor
(Tectonics, Department of Geology & Geophysics, University of Kashmir), Sprinagar,
Jammu & Kashmir, India; Frederick Bopp, PhD (Geology), Environmental Consulting,
Owner, Earth Quest, Downingtown, Pennsylvania. U.S.A.; Bruce Borders, PhD, Forest
Biometrics, Professor, Warnell School of Forestry and Natural Resources, University of
Georgia, Athens, Georgia, U.S.A.; James Brooks, BS, PhD, Geophysics, Adelaide,
Australia; Stephen Brown, PhD (Environmental Science, State University of New York),
Ground Penetrating Radar Glacier research, District Agriculture Agent Cooperative
Extension Service, University of Alaska, Fairbanks Mat-Su District Office Palmer; Alaska
Agriculture Extension Agent/Researcher, Alaska, U.S.A.; James Buckee, PhD
(astrophysics), Calgary, Alberta, Canada; James Clarke, BS (Meteorology), TVMeteorologist,
WZVN-TV, Ft. Myers, Florida, U.S.A.; Michael Clover, PhD
(experimental nuclear physics); Computer Simulation, Senior Scientist, Science
Applications International Corp., San Diego, California, U.S.A.; Martin Coniglio,
Meteorologist, KUSA-TV, Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.; Claude Culross, PhD (Organic
Chemistry), retired, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, U.S.A.; Michael Coffman, PhD,
(ecosysytems analysis and climate change), CEO of Sovereignty International, President of
Environmental Perspectives, Inc., Bangor, Maine, U.S.A.; Dalcio K. Dacol, PhD (physics,
University of California at Berkeley), physicist at the US Naval Research Laboratory,
Washington, D.C., U.S.A.; James DeMeo, PhD (University of Kansas, Geography,
Climate, Environmental Science), retired University Professor, now in Private Research,
Ashland, Oregon, U.S.A.; Per Engene, PhD, Biologist, Valenvegen, Norway; Donald W.
Farley, P.Eng, M.Eng. (Water Resources Engineering & Hydrology), Gatineau, Quebec,
Canada; Robert Jacomb Foster, BE (Adelaide University), palaeoclimatologist and
energy economist, Director Lavoisier Group; past Councillor Royal Society of Victoria and
Victorian Institute of Marine Science, Melbourne, Australia; Louis Fowler, BS
(Mathematics), MA (Physics), 33 years in environmental measurements (Ambient Air
Quality Measurements), Austin, Texas, U.S.A.; Peter Friedman, PhD, Member, American
Geophysical Union, Assistant professor of Mechanical Engineering, University of
Massachusetts, Dartmouth, Massachusetts, U.S.A.; Gordon Fulks, PhD (Physics,
University of Chicago), cosmic radiation, solar wind, electromagnetic and geophysical
phenomena, Portland, Oregon, U.S.A.; Maureen T. Gallagher, PhD, (Geology,
Micropaleontology), Consultant, Calgary, Alberta, Canada; Rigoberto Garcia, MC,
Climate Change and Urban Sustainability, Doctorate Student, El Colegio de México,
México City, DF, México; David Gray, PhD (EE Stanford U., Electromagnetic Wave
Transmission (in Atmosphere, and fiber)), Asst Professor of Engineering, Messiah College,
Grantham, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.; Charles Hammons, PhD (Applied Mathematics),
systems/software engineering, modeling & simulation, design, Consultant, Coyle,
Oklahoma, U.S.A.; D. Hebert, PhD, Faculty for Chemistry and Physics, Institut fur
Angewandte Physik, Freiberg, Germany; Hug Hienz, PhD, (Chemistry, University of
Mainz, Germany), former Professor of Organic Chemistry and Analytical Chemistry,
Germany; Ted Hinds, BS (Engineering Science), MS (Atmospheric Science), PhD
(Physical Ecology, U. Washington, Seattle), Quantitative empirical analyses regarding
climatological, meteorological, and ecological responses to environmental stresses,
consultant for USA EPA research on global climate change program. Senior Research
Scientist, retired, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, Richland, Washington, U.S.A.;
Ole Humlum, PhD, Physical Geography, Professor, University of Oslo, Oslo, Norway;
Steve Hynek, BS (Meteorology), Air Quality Analyst, Dairyland Power Cooperative, La
Crosse, Wisconsin, U.S.A.; Terrell Johnson, B.S. (Zoology), M.S. (Wildlife & Range
Resources, Air & Water Quality), Principal Environmental Engineer, Green River,
Wyoming, U.S.A.; Bill Kappel, BS (Physical Science-Geology), BS (Meteorology), Storm
Analysis, Climatology, Operation Forecasting, Vice President/Senior Meteorologist for
Applied Weather Associates, LLC, University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, U.S.A.;
Harald Kehl, PD Dr. rer. nat., Ecosystem Analysis, Lecturer, Researcher, Berlin,
Germany; Olav M. Kvalheim, Professor, Department of Chemistry, Univ. of Bergen,
Bergen, Norway; Rune B. Larsen, PhD (Geology, Geochemistry), Associate Professor,
Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU), Trondheim, Norway; Jay
Lehr, BEng (Princeton), PhD (environmental science and ground water hydrology),
Science Director, The Heartland Institute, Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A.; Edward Liebsch, MS
(Meteorology, Pennsylvania State University), BA (Earth Science & Chemistry, St. Cloud
State University), Air Quality, Meteorology, Senior Air Quality Scientist, HDR, Inc.,
Minneapolis, Minnesota, U.S.A.; Peter Link, BS, MS, PhD (Geology, Climatology),
Geol/Paleoclimatology, retired, Active in Geol-paleoclimatology, Tulsa University and
Industry, Evergreen, Colorado, U.S.A.; Endel Lippmaa, Prof.Dr.habil (Physics,
Chemistry), Chairman - Energy Council of the Estonian Academy of Science, Tallinn,
Estonia; Keith Lockitch, PhD (Physics, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee), Science
and Environmental Policy, Resident Fellow, Ayn Rand Institute, Irvine, California, U.S.A.;
Björn Malmgren, PhD, University Professor, Paleoclimate Science, retired, Lerum,
Sweden; Les McDonald, RP Bio; Senior Impact Assessment Biologist, BC Environmental
Protection (retired); Consulting Aquatic Biologist, Cranbrook, British Columbia, Canada;
Rob Meleon, PhD, biochemist, CSO Pepscan, Lelystad, The Netherlands; Amos Meyer,
Theoretical Physics, Applied Mathematics, Mathematical Modeling, Chief Scientist,
Westport, Connecticut, U.S.A.; Michael Monce, PhD (Physics), Atomic/Molecular,
Energy and Environment, Professor of Physics, Connecticut College, New London,
Connecticut, U.S.A.; Robert Neff, M.S. (Meteorology, St Louis University), Weather
Officer, USAF; Contractor support to NASA Meteorology Satellites, Retired, Camp
Springs, Maryland, U.S.A.; Peter Oliver, BS, MS, PhD, FGA, Geology, Geochemistry,
Paleomagnetism, Research Scientist, retired, Upper Hutt, New Zealand; Curtis Osgood,
BS (Meteorology, Lyndon State College), Consulting Meteorologist,
Forecaster/Consultant, Granby, Massachusetts, U.S.A.; Donald Parkes, PhD, BA (Hons),
MA, retired Professor Human Ecology, Australia and Japan; Daniel Joseph Pounder, BS
(Meteorology, University of Oklahoma), MS (Atmospheric Sciences, University of Illinois
in Urbana-Champaign); Weather Forecasting, Meteorologist, WILL AM/FM/TV, the
public broadcasting station of the University of Illinois, Urbana, U.S.A.; Patrick Powell,
BS (Meteorology/Physical Geography, Western Illinois University), AMS Board of
Broadcast Meteorology, CBM, Chief Meteorologist, WLUK-TV, Green Bay, Wisconsin,
U.S.A.; George A. Reilly, PhD (Geology), Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada; Henriques
Renato, PhD, Geology, Auxiliary Professor, University of Minho, Braga, Braga, Portugal;
Robert G. Roper, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of
Technology, Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A; Curt Rose, BA, MA (University of Western
Ontario), MA, PhD (Clark University), Professor Emeritus, Department of Environmental
Studies and Geography, Bishop's University, Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada; Robert
Roseman, Meteorology & Climatology, TV Meteorologist, Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.;
Clive Schaupmeyer, M.Sc., P.Ag. , Coaldale, Alberta, Canada; Milos Setek,
Meteorologist/Statistician, Senior Scientist, Bureau of Meteorology, Melbourne, Australia;
John Shade, BS (Physics), MS (Atmospheric Physics), MS (Applied Statistics), Industrial
Statistics Consultant, GDP, Dunfermline, United Kingdom; Vedat Shehu, Prof. Dr. Eng.,
Geologist, Engineering Geology, Tectonics, Geoingineering, Sharon, Massachusetts,
U.S.A. and Professor "Geoingineering Research Unit" in Tirana, Albania; Richard F.
Shepherd, ARCS (Mathematics), PhD, DIC (high energy physics), FIMA (numerical
analysis), FBCS (director of computing centre, retired), Pembroke, United Kingdom;
Douglas Southgate, PhD, Professor of Agricultural, Environmental and Development
Economics, Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio, U.S.A.; Arlin Super, PhD
(Meteorology), Weather Modification, retired Research Meteorologist, U.S. Bureau of
Reclamation, Saint Cloud, Minnesota, U.S.A.; Wojciech J. Szalecki, PhD (Organic
Chemistry), Senior Scientist, formerly University of Lodz, Poland, and University of
Colorado, now in Eugene, Oregon, U.S.A.; Malcolm Taylor, Dip ES (Climatology and
Hydrology specialization), Power Systems Analyst, Otago, New Zealand; Göran Tullberg,
Civilingenjör i Kemi (equivalent to Masters of Chemical Engineering), currently teacher of
Environmental Protection Engineering and Organic Chemistry at University in Växjö;
Falsterbo, Sweden; Roderick W. Van Koughnet, BS (Geology), MS (Geology
(Geophysics), Wright State University), Senior Geoscientist, L&M Petroleum, Wellington,
New Zealand; Gösta Walin, Professor, oceanografi, Earth Science Center, Göteborg
University, Göteborg, Sweden; Neil Waterhouse, PhD (Physics, Thermal, Electronic
Properties of Materials, Precise Temperature Measurement), retired, National research
Council, Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada; Jack Wedel, BS (Geography),
Arctic Hydrology, retired, Environment Canada, Keewatin, Ontario, Canada; James Weeg,
BS (Geology), MS (Environmental Science), Professional Geologist/hydrologist, Associate
Professor, Environmental Geology, Advent Environmental Inc, Mt. Pleasant, South
Carolina, U.S.A.; Rich Weiss, BSc (Meteorology, Valparaiso University), Meteorologist,
Supervisor of Meteorology, Houston, Texas, U.S.A.; Forese-Carlo Wezel, Professor of
Stratigraphy (global and Mediterranean geology, mass biotic extinctions and
paleoclimatology), University of Urbino, Urbino, Italy; Arnold Woodruff, M.Sc.
(Atmospheric Physics, U.C.W.Aberystwyth), B.Sc. (Physics, Durham), Terrestrial &
Spaceborne Exploration Geophysics, Consultant Geophysicist, Woodruff Exploration &
Production Ltd., Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, U.K.; Chris Yakymyshyn, PhD, MS, BS
(EE/Physics), Instrumentation, Vice President Technology, Field Metrics Inc., Seminole,
Florida, U.S.A.; Roger Young, BS, MS, D.I.C. F.G.S., Geophysics, Geophysical
Consultant, Bedford, Bedfordshire, England; Josef Zboril, MSc. (Chemistry), Board
Member, Confederation of Industry, Prague, Czech Republic; Stan Zlochen, MS
(Atmospheric Science), USAF (retired), Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A. (LINK) (LINK)

If you need anymore stuff to make you at least question what youve learned about global warming I will happily link about 200 sites next time.

I am not saying global warming is fake. I am saying manmade global warming from greenhouse gasses is absolutely fake.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Merlin » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:07 pm

This reminds me of the Discovery Institute's "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" petition. We need another Project Steve.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Kaz » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:43 pm

You are misinterpreting the significance of the graphic. Read the page where the graphic is displayed: specifically this blurb to the left of the very graphic you posted:

Arctic sea ice reflects sunlight, keeping the polar regions cool and moderating global climate. According to scientific measurements, Arctic sea ice has declined dramatically over at least the past thirty years, with the most extreme decline seen in the summer melt season.

You're also linking a site called This is going nowhere. I linked you a good starting point to learn about the science behind it. Merlin also posted some good introductory videos to it. You link to shit that attacks the people and their motives and just glosses in a dismissive fashion over the science. This is a copy-paste of the creationist tactic. They're not interested in the science at all beyond picking at small holes they find (usually they invent them), the majority of their argument is political or even legal. They try to win people over instead of convincing them with hard facts. This is possible because the actual science is complicated and laymen don't have the necessary knowledge to understand it

The people who have the most to win or lose in this "debate" aren't the ecologists.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby reddwhite » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:05 pm

I posted the first link to show that the polar ice is growing not shrinking as the manmade global warming proponents claim. I didnt misrepresent anything.( I am showing a chain of evidence that I have found that led to my skepticism) The second link, regardless of the site it is on is from the national snow and ice data center, university of colorado boulder. Nothing about any of the 4 pictures was changed in any way. They only show that the polar sea ice has not only grown back to the 1997 surface area, but that it has grown larger and continues its outward growth. The data at the first and second links are from the same place. The national snow and ice data center, university of colorado boulder.Hell I will just link it from there and you can see it from them your self. ... s=no_panel

I have no problem showing hard data from respectable sources. It just seems that some peeps dont like data that disagrees with their point of view. I wasnt a skeptic trying to spread skepticism. I just happened to read a skepical article one day and went to check the data for myself at the source, and found that almost all of the things that have been reported are either flawed or flat out lies. The more I look the more I find.

Play with the options and see the ice shrink and grow for youself it is kinda cool.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Dr.Mellifluous » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:56 pm

Uh, how about what I said? Only a simpleton would deny that climate change is natural and only a different simpleton would deny that man affects his environment in drastic ways. We can cause inland seas to evaporate and have released megatons of pollution into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution. Yes, the earth's ecosystem changes over time, but just because it changes doesn't mean we don't affect the change. This isn't even science, this is just logic.
a particle is a thing in itself. a wave is a disturbance in something else. waves themselves are probably not disturbed.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Kaz » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:33 am

Holy shit you're dumb. The graph shows arctic ice increasing during december january and february because, guess what, it's WINTER. If you're specifically referencing the 2008-2009 line being higher than the 2006-2007, that's even worse. You can't compare a single year with another and draw conclusions from there. You need to examine trends and averages of many years to draw reliable conclusions from something as volatile as the climate. Global warming doesn't mean every year is warmer than the last, it means the the overall trend is up.

The second link is antarctica, not the arctic ice levels. If you switch to see the northern hemisphere, you'll see the ice has receded, particularly along the russian coastline

You have a critical misunderstanding of climatology and science in general. Educate yourself on the subject before expressing criticism, especially if it goes against the well-founded opinion of the overwhelming majority of experts on the subject.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby WatermelonMan » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:05 pm

I find it odd that when ever people argue about whether humans cause global warming or not they never look at planets without human inhabitants. Like all the planets in our solar system whose average surface temperatures are increasing at a rate similar to ours. Is that our fault too?

And there's the science joke of how our instruments are just getting better and the temperature hasn't changed at all, we've just gotten better at reading it.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Herosbane » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:38 pm

Guys, the heart of the matter is that Arrakis has never had ONE DROP OF RAIN. I see this as a major block for global warming "supporters". How can you claim that climates change at ALL when Arrakis has had the same topography and climate for as long as we have observed it? I simply do not believe that you can be naive enough to ignore the climatology of such noted scientests as Dr. Kynes, of Arrakis U. He says, and I quote: "I am a desert creature!" HOW CAN YOU REFUTE THAT? YOU CANNOT!

Case closed.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:14 pm

Melon, you faggot.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby WatermelonMan » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:17 pm

TheRaven7 wrote:Um, let's see. Venus is a greenhouse gas party, and the other planets don't have atmospheres so the comparison isn't valid?

Are you joking? ALL the planets have an atmosphere except for Mercury! LOL NOOB!

Turkey_Slayer wrote:Melon, you faggot.

mad cuz ur gay?
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:25 pm

no im mad cuz ur gay
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby WatermelonMan » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:55 pm

All planets have atmospheres because all planets have gravity because all planets have mass and all things that have mass matter. Gravity pulls gases and holds them down near the planet creating the atmosphere.

Mercury is the only planet with no atmosphere (cuz its so tiny) which is why its surface temperature ranges from 100K to 700K which is pretty ridiculous.

Venus on the other hand has the thickest atmosphere of all the planets which causes it to be isothermal allowing to to retain its temperature even during night.

I'll skip Mars since you conceded defeat on it (which is funny because its lacking part of its atmosphere compared to the other planets).

Another funny thing is that you think Jupiter doesn't have an atmosphere but it, of all the other planets, has the greatest chance of creating life due to its atmosphere conditions and weather patterns.

Saturn is pretty much solid atmosphere considering we don't really know what is under all the clouds.

On Uranus, the fall in temperature from the stratosphere to the troposphere is from 300K to 52K which clearly demonstrates a very effective absorption of UV and IR radiation from the sun thus the presence of an atmosphere.

And then there is Neptune with its layers of atmospheres, its surface temperature is usually 70K which is rather chilly, but I think any planet with SUPERSONIC winds would be a bit cold too.

(and pluto gets left out :( )

The most ridiculous thing is that you honestly think these planets don't have atmospheres which is pretty much saying that all the scientist back to the 1600s are wrong. That must be some serious testing you've done.

And if these planets didn't have atmospheres then the entire argument of global warming wouldn't be valid because if these bodies had no atmosphere they would have no gravity which would mean our planet has no gravity with means it has no atmosphere which means we're all dead--oh sht.
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Kaz » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:05 pm

Huh yeah, no. You should probably stop now
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Re: Global warming fact or fiction?

Postby Gorbadoc » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:47 am

Raven's remark was bizarre, and we could quibble over how to define an atmosphere, but that's irrelevant. It's an uncontroversial fact that the Earth's temperature is governed by a different balance of factors from other planets.

It's also an uncontroversial fact that glaciers and ice caps are melting across the Earth. Denying the existence of global warming is a bit like denying the existence of house fires. Even if you don't understand all the details of how fire or global warming works, you can see scorched buildings and shrunken glaciers.

If you're willing to make the leap and trust people who know what the hell they're talking about, the consensus is that global warming would be catastrophic (rising sea levels, radical ecological shifts, and changes in local infrastructure needs are all enormously expensive) and that greenhouse gas production is a controllable factor contributing to global warming.

The closest thing to difficult in this discussion is figuring out who knows what they're talking about and who's just a jerk. This is largely a matter of tracing back people's reasoning and making sure premises are based on legit data. That, and knowing how to interpret science-speak; when a scientist says "Our explanation could be incorrect," it just means that, while they are confident, they're not so arrogant as to stop looking for alternate explanations.
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