Project Game, Design Eternity

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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Kaz » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:11 am

Wow. That is an impressive combination of missing the boat and missing the point. Well done, Blizzard.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:01 pm

The funniest part to me is the game industry equivalent of what you see all the time in job postings for the tech industry. E.g. half-wit recruiters will ask for things like 10 years experience with Rails or Django, when Django and Rails didn't even exist 10 years ago. In the Blizzard posting it's:

a talented lead game designer with experience in developing top-quality DOTA-style games
A minimum of 5 years’ game design experience
Must have shipped at least one AAA title in a lead designer role

There are, what, two people on the planet who can claim this? Tsk.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:53 pm

Must have shipped at least one AAA title in a lead designer role

Thank you for my laugh of the day.

Also, what does it mean to have shipped at least one AAA title? Do you have to have a job at UPS?
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Kaz » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:53 pm

They're also asking for AAA+++ INDUSTRY LEADING EXPERIENCE to jump in on a user-generated content craze. Why not just hire the guys who started it in the first place? Oh, they've been hired for years already? Way to be on the ball, Blizzard. I'm sure your ultra-latecomer will be a smashing success. Thanks to 5 years of game design experience in AAA DOTA-style games, of course.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:02 pm

Funny thing is it can still be hugely successful. As an AoS Smash Bros. full not only of Blizzard IP but of time-tested Blizzard game mechanics, Blizzard All-Stars is 100% upside. They're just...I don't know what the fuck they're doing. Not even working on it, apparently.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Fledermaus » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:20 pm

Cass, do it! Just so it can be called Tides of Blizzard!
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:09 pm

Blizzard of Blood.

A.k.a. BoB.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:46 pm

Hahaha, oh you guys. *brofist*

Hey, at least Bliz got their card game done! Because why compete with a bunch of nobodies if you can compete with the likes of M:TG. After all, it worked for Warhammer!

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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:18 pm

Is that a parody or?
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:38 am

This would have made for their best April Fool's joke ever, but you tell me. Basically, what made Blizzard big is doing parody on another franchise. So this is only consequential. Maybe that's why they have such difficulty with Dota, since that itself is a parody of their parody. So according to their work mode, they had to make a parody of a parody of their parody of some crazy shit. Intriguing.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Zeuter » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:23 pm

Microtransactions
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your task is simple;
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all you need is to
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:41 pm

It's what happens when you put an "Acti" in front of your "vision". Your tripple A developers make epic phone games. Also, Cass, remember your question when you sit face to face with that "shot caller". You will spend free time on helping a bunch of decadent billionaires who take their own parody so seriously now, they don't notice they've become parody. I'd still be totally curious of how that meeting went though.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:33 pm

I'm not actually going to apply. It would take a few hours to put an application together and that application would never make it past their HR filters, so why bother? Plus I'm being recruited by a lot of security companies right now to manage their core technologies, so Blizzard would have to be paying in the neighborhood of $150k to be competitive. Would still love to get in a room with them, though.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:16 pm

Makes me wonder what the dota guys make. Those lucky devils! Puts a new perspective on "why did you stop, it could have been you!", lawls, indeed.

Haha, I'm making 15k, they still could not be competitive though. I actually prefer repetitive physical work, which I can blend out and have me mind free, than putting my mind to their service. Also, I'd not want to meet them either, since I don't expect that to be fun, to my understanding, but I guess all that is mutual. =D

It's funny, in real life no one knows I can even speak English, or my native tongue better than bad, or do 1+1 = 2, or any of my other shit. It's all just part of my secret online identity. It wouldn't change anything anyway, since in my part of the world, formal recognition is supremely important, no one cares what you think you know, even if you show them, and my bio is blank. But at least I can feel super special that way.

:lol:
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:35 pm

Yeah but if I get my own company off the ground I'll drag you over on an H1B.

Other than the way they marketed the SC2 editor and the idea of an app store for mods, I can't recall any transparently evil behavior from Blizzard. So despite their many recent shortcomings, I'd like to see them succeed (creatively, that is -- they're doing just fine financially).

But games are a rough business with below-market pay and poor quality of life. Employers get away with it because there are far more people trying to get into games than there are jobs available. E.g. this. So unless I start a game company, it's just unlikely I'd go that direction at this point.

Publishing is the same way. Every nerd with an English degree wants in, so the pay is terrible, although in publishing you don't face 60+-hour work weeks at most companies. I lasted 9 months at $30k in San Francisco. Never again. If you're really fucking smart, do something only really fucking smart people can do. That's how you make money.

But I share your affinity for the rhythms of physical work, which are bound up with all the arts except, oddly, writing. It's amazing reading Rilke on Rodin or Cezanne, or Deleuze on Francis Bacon, the physicality of their work, and, in Rilke's case, the effort to bring that to writing with his Dinggedichte. Or the way Wordsworth composed in his head while walking for hours and hours every single day without ever stopping to write.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Zeuter » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:40 am

Having almost finished my CS degree, working for someone else's company seems very unappealing right now. Working on my own projects would be nicer. On the other hand, I don't want to be stuck in startup hell either. I'll give it a year.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Kaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:34 am

I spent a decade doing a ton of slightly different jobs to finally realize it's not the work I don't care for, it's the work for others. There was always something, you know the thing, always some dumb fucking thing you have to contend with because someone somewhere made it so and would make me quit in disgust. Repeat about a hundred times and here I am.

e: It's kind of weird. Normally my stupidity tolerance threshold is pretty high, but when paid labor is involved, it drops to 0.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby o » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:47 am

You should apply. I can shove your name through employee referrals and someone might look at it haha.

A long time ago they interviewed Icefrog before he went with Valve. I think they basically told him to get out cause he just wanted to remake dota1. They wanted someone to something new I guess.

Also that card game is the best thing I've played in a long, long time.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Cassiel » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:58 am

Zeut, find a company with people and values you actually like. That made all the difference for me, at least. I could work from home most of the time if I wanted, but I go into the office every day because it's such an awesome place to work. Like, awesome to the point that I got scola a job there a few months back, and now they're about to make windigo an offer as well.

Kaz, if you lived here, I would get you hired, too =\. And you'd fucking like it.

o, the card game looks cool. It's the video that's super cheesy and made me think it might be an April Fool's joke that leaked early. Like the AEO skinny skinny jeans video with all the bare-assed folks. I really don't want to put together a "game designer" resume but maybe I'll write a short cover letter and drop it into the system. I'll PM you or IM you or something if I do.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm

What are these "jobs" you speak of? I have to pay to work.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:14 pm

Zeut, I've often read from people that made it to their own stuff successfully, that they first went into some companies for a couple years to learn the tricks of the trade from the experienced folks and build personal contacts around the industry. When they went start-up / freelance, they knew what to do and whom to call. That they went into employment with this deliberate plan in mind, made them psychologically more resilient to bullshit, too. Don't know what works for you, but if things don't turn out so well, that's something to keep in mind, to instrumentalize a bad situation, into the best of it for a higher goal, and move on the moment you feel it doesn't serve it anymore.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Zeuter » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:28 pm

Cassiel wrote:Zeut, find a company with people and values you actually like. That made all the difference for me, at least. I could work from home most of the time if I wanted, but I go into the office every day because it's such an awesome place to work. Like, awesome to the point that I got scola a job there a few months back, and now they're about to make windigo an offer as well.


I've been looking. The companies around here seem nice, but the things they work on are awfully mundane. I'd rather work at a company like this, but creative sector pay is generally lower (and it's situated in the middle of nowhere). Then there's the option of pursuing a master's degree, but I'm tempted to postpone that until I get some more work experience, although that's not a common thing to do around here.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:31 pm

Kaz, I totally know that fucking thing, haha *brofist*, and it annoys me most when it's in my free time that's supposed to be quality experience. It made me entirely drop coding more times than I wished it did.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:37 pm

Turkey, *brofist*.
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Re: Project Eternity

Postby Zeuter » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:45 pm

RageAgainstVoid wrote:Zeut, I've often read from people that made it to their own stuff successfully, that they first went into some companies for a couple years to learn the tricks of the trade from the experienced folks and build personal contacts around the industry. When they went start-up / freelance, they knew what to do and whom to call. That they went into employment with this deliberate plan in mind, made them psychologically more resilient to bullshit, too. Don't know what works for you, but if things don't turn out so well, that's something to keep in mind, to instrumentalize a bad situation, into the best of it for a higher goal, and move on the moment you feel it doesn't serve it anymore.


Thanks for the advice. Starting this summer, I'll have half a year to (mostly) do whatever the hell I want. During that time I expect to finish several smaller projects and to do a lot of work on a big one. Depending on how that is going to pan out I'll be making a choice. Perhaps I'll become a successful artist or grow rich from microtransactions.

Also, a note on coding: it took me about 1.5 years to not be disgusted by writing code. Now I can weave magic spells. I wonder what's up with the innate aversion to magic, my boyfriend still has it.
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