Legendary Fall Out

Off-topic forum which is now, paradoxically, the on-topic forum. Any on-topic posts will be moved to the off-topic forum and verse-vica.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:53 pm

I have a difficult time taking scrawny twenty-somethings in suspenders seriously. :lol:
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Cassiel » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:04 pm

Zeuter wrote:Would you agree though that, in order to unlock the full game of LoL at this point, that would be worth the hundreds of dollars it now takes?

I obviously don't think it's worth it, or I'd play LoL. Then again, LoL is too expensive for me even when it's free. Why would anyone who values their time sink it into that game? Beats me.

Magic can be quite expensive too, though, if you want to be competitive/unlock the "full game," and it's very well-designed and fun. I don't play Magic anymore either, but I might again at some point.

Zeuter wrote:Is the additional content really substantial enough to warrant that price?

All of LoL's content looks jank to me. Never been a fan of their design -- not the mechanics, not the flavor, and definitely not the intersection of the two.

Zeuter wrote:The thousands for runes (in the form of boosts) to be competitive?

Definitely not. But again, the same goes for Magic, especially online.

Zeuter wrote:I'd say that's complete bullshit. Gamers are buying virtual goods at hugely inflated prices, and cannot see through the bullshit because they're being actively misled. If they fully understood what was going on, I don't think LoL would have many fans left.

I agree that it's bullshit, but I don't see where people are being misled. Exploited, maybe, but not in a way that hides what's going on. Remember that unlike Deacon most players never spend a penny on the game.

To sum up: it's a shitty game that uses a F2P model, but that doesn't mean it's a shitty F2P model.
User avatar
Cassiel
 
Posts: 5082
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 2:12 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Fledermaus » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:24 pm

I haven't spent a cent on LoL but then again, I just play against the bots..
Am I doing it wrong?
ImageImageImageImage
Image
User avatar
Fledermaus
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:02 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:51 pm

Cass do you play anything multiplayer anymore or do you not have the time? I remember you said a few years back another big issue you had with LoL was the way character development was going but I don't know if that was an actual reason for not playing it as opposed to contributing to it.

Also that point about the majority of people not buying things is actually pretty spot on: it is more or less the more vocal people online who also happen to invest big in cosmetics and what not.

That being said I am absolutely certain I could sell off my account for ~$1000 because there are people who would buy that, and I think that is sort of distressing. Then again players also pay pros like $200 just to climb 100-200 elo so I mean LoL has never been a game where intelligent money investment is displayed.

A reason I did go to LoL because on there 170-210 ping feels like absolutely nothing (probably due to instant cast speeds and no turn speeds) and DotA 2 had no Australian servers at the time. As soon as they pumped those out I haven't looked back since.
Last edited by Deacon (AYC) on Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Merlin wrote:I have a difficult time taking scrawny twenty-somethings in suspenders seriously. :lol:

Awful fashion style or not, at least the dude knows what he is talking about considering the amount of time he has spent in Korea for Wc3/Brood War/SC2/LoL. It is just a shame they refused to put him as an actual caster.
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Cassiel » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:45 pm

Deacon (AYC) wrote:Cass do you play anything multiplayer anymore or do you not have the time? I remember you said a few years back another big issue you had with LoL was the way character development was going but I don't know if that was an actual reason for not playing it as opposed to contributing to it.

I've never been much for online multiplayer games. WC3 mods were the exception. LoL in particular I didn't get into because the champions and gameplay are unimaginative, on the one hand, and on the other, the whole system of summoner levels and spells and runes and masteries is asinine. Who the hell wants to grind for months just to get to the real game?
User avatar
Cassiel
 
Posts: 5082
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 2:12 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:04 am

They're mimicking the addictive aspects of MMOs. It takes months to get good at the game anyway, so why not start people out with a limited game. Give them a progress bar, and they will endeavor to fill it.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Cassiel » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:42 pm

It might take months to get good at the game if you've never played an AoS before. Most of us here were 8 years deep into these games when LoL was released, though, and it's a pretty safe bet that the vast majority of LoL's early audience had at least 3 years of DotA experience, if nothing else. Take away all the pay2win crap, and you're still left with having to grind to level 30 to play competitively. It's insane.
User avatar
Cassiel
 
Posts: 5082
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 2:12 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:18 pm

Like a fox.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:22 pm

@Merlin it depends. Chu8 hopped from HoN to LoL in S1 and within like a month and a half got to rank 1 on NA just playing Maokai mid lane. People these days pick up games stupidly fast, I think a lot of it has to do with the resources available - whether it be guides, VODs, or livestreams. Like hell, s4 has only played DotA for around a year and was the MVP of TI3 and his team, Alliance, won every game except the grand final convincingly (they still won).

@Cass: The sadder part is you can buy IP/XP boosts for real currency, which is what 90% of people do these days especially when making smurf accounts. For a company which speaks out against smurfing frequently, their game and model has a lot of features which openly facilitate smurfing.

Even recently they gave every NA pro a brand new, fully unlocked level 30 account to go grind solo queue in some attempt to prove to people that 'ELO Hell' doesn't exist. All they got in response was an angry player base questioning why a company which doesn't want smurfing to be a thing would then go and pull out a move like that.
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:16 am

I wasn't being entirely serious, and of course there are exceptions to every rule. I agree that it takes too long to hit 30 (~6 months if you play once a day), but I'm not convinced that's it's a bad system. DotA 2 has another approach, with a game mode that limits the pool of heroes to choose from, which may be a better solution for players. It also has a progress bar (progress bars are so hot right now), but uses a different addictive MMO element: farmable equipment, versus LoL's runes, masteries, and daily xp bonus to achieve that sense of growth which hooks players. Obviously the social aspect is also hugely important. I'm not sure which approach is better for making money yet.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Zeuter » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:44 am

Engagement in both games is huge. When it comes to monetisation though, LoL wins easily. It has coercive monetization/a premium currency system, and it's a money game disguised as a skill game. These are things that will make people pay - a lot.

On the other hand, Valve just love their crates. That's the only thing that they do better. For everything else, DotA's monetisation is worse because it does not feature a dual currency system and it's not pay2win. This is also what gives it credibility as an esport - I really can't see how anyone could take LoL seriously since it's pay2win.
simply
it is enough to
your task is simple;
just
all you need is to
User avatar
Zeuter
 
Posts: 3740
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:07 am
Location: オランダ

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:40 am

I'm not sure I agree with this pay2win criticism. True, initially you will be forced to specialize because you simply won't have the RP to buy as broad a range of runes as you want to be "well-rounded," in the event that you don't get your first (or second) choice in ranked. Honestly though you can get away with a basic set of runes, and playing just one champion most of the time, so I don't think someone who paid for RP bonuses has a significant advantage over you.

As for the monetization strategies, I think Riot probably wins based solely off their shameless use of tits and cute. :lol:
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Zeuter » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:25 am

Merlin wrote:I'm not sure I agree with this pay2win criticism. True, initially you will be forced to specialize because you simply won't have the RP to buy as broad a range of runes as you want to be "well-rounded," in the event that you don't get your first (or second) choice in ranked. Honestly though you can get away with a basic set of runes, and playing just one champion most of the time, so I don't think someone who paid for RP bonuses has a significant advantage over you.


Then what is a significant advantage? Playing only a limited subset of champions puts you at a huge disadvantage. Being "well-rounded" is still a worse position than having access to everything. Someone at level 1 with 0 games played can buy all champions with real money, get in a game and make a perfect counterpick to any team. That's pay2win. More options -> more power, and that's disregarding buying extra rune pages and runes, which give you even more options.

Thank god no one uses the "but you can buy everything with soft currency" argument here, I've had LoL players actually use that as an argument against LoL being pay2win.
simply
it is enough to
your task is simple;
just
all you need is to
User avatar
Zeuter
 
Posts: 3740
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:07 am
Location: オランダ

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:58 am

I meant IP (soft currency), not RP. You can't buy runes with RP, and while you can buy rune pages, they're more of a convenience than anything. It's been a while since I've played.

I don't think someone spending $300 to have every counter-pick available is a real problem, especially when counter-picking just forces you to play differently, and in no way means you've lost. Champions that have too many counters simply don't get picked.

Is there any evidence that people who buy champions win more?

Actually I just remembered that champion skins wearing sunglasses take 1 less damage from Leona's Sunlight passive. imbaimbaimba :lol:
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:58 pm

For real though Riot need to learn how to run a live tournament first before they finish off buying out e-sports. That world final was abysmal and a lot of people are unhappy.
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Merlin » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:58 pm

¿Por qué no doble eliminación?
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: YUL

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:41 am

- Werid, nonsensical opening ceremony where a song for a newly released champion is played instead of something you'd expect?

- Four countdowns to absolutely nothing?

- The same shitty techno we've subjected to you all year?

- Three 30 minute stomps because we only wanted one match today, a situation which could have been ratted out if we were smart enough to run a losers bracket?

- No post game interview with the champs, while our president and vice president come on stage unprofessionally dressed and refuse to stop holding the cup for the winning side?

- 10 minutes of irrelevant post game discussion before we cut our stream off??

"Yeah, they're gonna love this. This is what e-sports is all about."
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Zeuter » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:15 am

Merlin wrote:I meant IP (soft currency), not RP. You can't buy runes with RP, and while you can buy rune pages, they're more of a convenience than anything. It's been a while since I've played.


You can't buy runes with RP, but with IP.

075UJEh.png
075UJEh.png (248.69 KiB) Viewed 2652 times


Oh look, you can buy IP with RP! How very clever. The fact that people don't see beyond something as simple as this is fucking hilarious. This is what I mean by people being misled. By using a multiple currency system, a lot of people get utterly confused at what is going on because they can't process the most basic predicate logic.

Do note that LoL tries to be very subtle in disguising the fact that it's a pay2win game. You can't spend RP when in a game to get gold, win the game or whatever. It's far more insidious than that.

See it like this: a veteran max level player will not only win vs a new max level player because he's better, but also because he either dumped more money into the game or played for far longer. In any game that pretends to be competitive that fact alone should set off alarm bells.
simply
it is enough to
your task is simple;
just
all you need is to
User avatar
Zeuter
 
Posts: 3740
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:07 am
Location: オランダ

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:34 am

Zeuter wrote:See it like this: a veteran max level player will not only win vs a new max level player because he's better, but also because he either dumped more money into the game or played for far longer. In any game that pretends to be competitive that fact alone should set off alarm bells.


They make ridiculous money off this, as I mentioned before, because people literally smurf to either:

- beat new players and trash talk them
- to get multiple accounts high on the ladder for e-peen points
- to get another account to 30 because they're bad and they want to get lucky in the inflated MMR games to get high on the ladder.

not to mention the most obvious fact of that you need to buy champions to play champions which is still the most puzzling shit to me looking back on it.
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:20 pm



Making a music video to introduce a new character to the game is the best shot you have in your arsenal.

Production-wise it is solid. Of course. The money is there.
You can see the commissioned professionals even tried to have some fun with the material.
The deranged riot girl with daddy issues is a fun card to play.

And yet it doesn't work. It doesn't connect. It doesn't come across "believable". The base material feels so artificial and pretentious and predictable and marketed and uninspiring. The character designer doesn't seem to grasp this fetish, what makes it, he just uses it, so save and unimaginative there is nothing left. It's like all these grown talents involved are directed by a five year old, a pretend five year old, a real one would direct better.

I watch it and it's ok as such I guess, forgettable. Still don't care to play that girl -- not even for free.
Wut ohne Ziel. Wut ohne Folgen.
User avatar
RageAgainstVoid
More like Rage Against Roids/Rrhoids
 
Posts: 4362
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:23 am
Location: Ravenna

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Fledermaus » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:39 am

RageAgainstVoid wrote:Still don't care to play that girl -- not even for free.

But you hate women.
ImageImageImageImage
Image
User avatar
Fledermaus
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:02 pm

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:48 am

Oh... right... uh... but I love objects!

I'm probably just bitter they didn't give her enough boobs and ass.

Which is odd, considering:
Guinsoo wrote:One other note is that it's hard to make attractive female champions that look female in our engine unless the boobs are noticable.

Unless the boobs are big, you won't see them in game, and if you don't see them in game, it will look more masculine.
Wut ohne Ziel. Wut ohne Folgen.
User avatar
RageAgainstVoid
More like Rage Against Roids/Rrhoids
 
Posts: 4362
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:23 am
Location: Ravenna

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby gandalf37 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:20 am

The two top comments on that video:

FIRST CHAMPION EVER MADE WITH SMALLETS BOOBS !


If she had boobes, I would have to play this game one handed...


Can't tell if serious or making fun of what Guinsoo said....
User avatar
gandalf37
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: I'll show yee.

Re: Legendary Fall Out

Postby Deacon (AYC) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:11 pm

Guinsoo said that shit back in like 2011, that is just the LoL player base for you.

This champion also contradicts Riot's apparently desire to phase out/not add global spells to the game, which says a lot about where they want to go with this game.
HOSK CLAN: CLAN HOSK
User avatar
Deacon (AYC)
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Fast and the Spurious

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron