Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby GraveI » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:27 pm

I didn't tell him anything. I offered to let him use my account. I'm not willing to pay one red cent for the humble indie bundle because none of those games appeal to me in any way.

Mostly I'm just confused.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:35 pm

After your offer, it was asked if it's worth that money. Responses, including yours, addressed that. So you did tell.

The Bundle page is merely a reality check to pricing in that market.

If this is settled you may continue discussing the gameplay itself then without my interruption.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby Turkey_Slayer » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:04 pm

My main gripes were in your responses to Grav and HdM, RAV. Of course, the most glaring problem here is that Ryzel's original question was most likely directed at those who, y'know, have actually played the damn game, and not the deluded, rambling nutball in the corner that likes to give half-assed attempts at cost analysis on $20 video games.

Also, I have no plans to buy/play this game.

RageAgainstVoid wrote:I buy what I like when priced reasonably. I don't let people puppeteer me by my taste.

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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:12 pm

I have seen it in play enough to make that judgement call. There is thorough "Let's play"s on youtube, even on the beta.

Are you done being ridiculous? What is this? Zombie apocalypse? Must I bring out my axe?
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby GraveI » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:08 am

I'm not sure that DDs appeal can be properly conveyed through anything but individual play.

But what do I know.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby HdM » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:18 am

If the guardian of magic isn't supposed to be defeated, why is it there? I did assume that maybe with the right combination of gods and items, it can be slain. For instance, Taurog could provide several layers of death protection. If you are able to make ~100 dmg per hit it might be possible to kill it.

Anyway, I'm kind of stuck on the Indomitable. He has 200+ Hitpoints, makes decent damage and has 50x Death protection. Seriously, 50 times? Even if I use Poison, bludtopowa and burndayraz, I'd need like the whole map just to regenerate the mana to kill him (let alone the fact that I need to get to at least level 7 before doing that.)
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:14 am

I keep responding to this, because it is an issue that far exceeds that game for me. I don't argue this for saving you or me 20$, nor to troll you, it genuinely annoys me for more reasons than you can know, so that's why I can't really discuss this in reconciliatory tone.

GraveI wrote:I'm not sure that DDs appeal can be properly conveyed through anything but individual play.

In this case it can. The videos are very thorough and there are no further hidden variables to that particular game experience unconvey-able in such way. What is there to know is seen. This is different than informing yourself about a large multiplayer brawl/fps/rpg/mmo game.

However appealing it appears, it is nothing more than a puzzle game alike to Minesweeper, just with a more exciting theme that makes it look on surface as if it was another kind of game. Its production value is little more than Solitaire's. These games are appealing to countless people that have spent countless hours on them, yet are they sold for 20$?

It took a whole lot of money to produce NS2. At one point they priced it 19.99$ for the standard edition, so to recuperate from having spent over half a million dollars on making that game. Several high profile experts spent years of their life working full-time on it. By now they've spent more than a million dollars, so they adapted the price accordingly. And it is a game for hardcore crowd, so that's even a comparatively limited market, and still that's the price they put on for this much investment. And for that price it looks ambitious like games that put in more than 20-40 million$ and sell for 60$.

The design of Desktop Dungeons relies entirely on lowest use of menus/buttons/text/tooltips, which he didn't even custom code but made most basic use of already available OS functionality, which is as convenient as it is limiting; meanwhile the game code and content can be produced in less of a week part time work, if it took him longer that's his problem, why should anyone overpay an amateur's overtime. It tells those indies that have produced much better stuff that ambition does not pay off, they should rather have made appealing crap in no time and get rich. Hey let's all throw too much money on the crappiest productions on the market, to reward them for extreme absurdities of "Subtractive Design", which now translates to "pay me more for less work"!

It is not only about Desktop Dungeons, I think most indie games are sold for way too much currently. I like Indie too, but there is this craze right now, and people seem to get emotionally attached and have romantic ideas about supporting the good cause. And meanwhile the indies are calculating it completely wrong. I think for the most of them their own pricing hurts themselves the most.

Except for that overpriced trash Minecraft. Everyone who mods it tells you how bad the engine really is. But that's not even necessary because simply playing that ugly slug fest tells you that already. What he did well was coming up with good ideas of functional blocks for a game world, though he did not really make a game out of that. Still, that's really good work and should be rewarded very well. But not that much, not millions and millions and millions of cash, when it means that people who laid out much more important groundwork on which he relied, and who produced much better such engines, all long before him, get nothing at all, not even an honourable mention and a hug. And for what? What did he invest? It's a great tragedy that the Cube 2: Sauerbraten engine did not take off like that despite being made years before Minecraft and being technically so much superior in every way. Not only is it tightly made and lightning fast, it even supports deformation of the blocks to create any smooth and organic form you can think of. It let's you make visually amazing maps that you'd never guess were made out of standard blocks. Its capability and usability is great. In game mode it's a quake-deathmatch shooter, that allows you to enter an in-game free-cam edit mode and do anything you want. It's multiplayer, multi-platform, open-source, it's always been free, try it out yourself. Someone should make a minecraft-ish mod for it, its quality and potential would easily trash Minecraft's all over. It's such a damned shame that despite being around forever and so well made, the guy who made it and set up important foundations did not get any little slice of attention in all this, everyone's raving cluelessly about an undercooked overpriced past-time crap production.





So to wrap this up, it's really not about the appeal of it, it's about appropriate pricing, and the way people let their poor ideas of appeal factor into acceptance of overprice pisses me off, from general brand whoring to indie game thug ups. It's unfair, it's demoralizing watching them get away with it, it's bad inspiration. It makes other more ambitious Indies look like fools and overachievers.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby GraveI » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:37 pm

If Cass had donations set up right now, I would probably toss him cash at some point relatively soon. When donations were an option here, I was 16. And simultaeneously worshipped Cass and hated on him non stop :P. And then Nem ran away with it anyways. And now there's no donations.

@RAV, some of these guys should maybe look at agents then? I'm just a jackass from rural Canada with a laptop and somehow I've potentially landed a gig at Caesars Palace in Vegas. I don't have any number one singles and I've only DJed a club with 400 capacity. Promotion and networking is huge.

edit
When I say agents I don't mean it literally. I just mean promotion and advertising and networking. People need to be aware of things...
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:13 pm

Windigo put Paypal up in a thread in the ToB section for covering server costs, poor guy carrying us slobs on his pocket all the years. The only reason I haven't given money yet is because I have no bank account (no bank wants to give me an account, because apparently I'm.. err.. unaccountable. The little money I make on shady jobs to stay afloat is cash-in-hand only. If I order something from the web it's always via pay-at-door-delivery.) and no other way of getting money across the web. I may yet find a solution to this problem though.

Anyway, it's cool, Grav, this whole issue was irking me for some time, it just waited for a trigger. It's not that I actually mind you/Hdm/Ryz having fun in DD. It's just.. fuck all, y'know? You smoke pot for that, I post.


Proceed.
HdM wrote:If the guardian of magic isn't supposed to be defeated, why is it there? I did assume that maybe with the right combination of gods and items, it can be slain. For instance, Taurog could provide several layers of death protection. If you are able to make ~100 dmg per hit it might be possible to kill it.

Anyway, I'm kind of stuck on the Indomitable. He has 200+ Hitpoints, makes decent damage and has 50x Death protection. Seriously, 50 times? Even if I use Poison, bludtopowa and burndayraz, I'd need like the whole map just to regenerate the mana to kill him (let alone the fact that I need to get to at least level 7 before doing that.)
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby windigo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:51 pm

Nobody should feel bad for me. I host it because I like to do it. I am dumb for paying 10$ / mo when I could probably do it for like 4$.

I'm hosting another blog now too - http://www.darlingelement.com so I'd be paying for hosting anyways. So I don't need any donations!

I'm tracking that links so I'm going to see how many of you fuckers click it.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby Cassiel » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:31 pm

Is that Emy's food blog?
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby Merlin » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:59 pm

windigo wrote:I'm tracking that links so I'm going to see how many of you fuckers click it.

Shit. :ninja:
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:16 pm

Oh food, look at all that delicious food.. home is where good food is.

http://www.darlingelement.com wrote:It begins, as with many things, with an idea. You get a thought in your head that you will accomplish something. Before actually attacking this self-given task, you play the task in your head as a way of measuring how things will go. After what you believe to have been careful consideration, you gleefully decide to go for it! Suddenly, typically when you are knee-deep in and there is no turning back, reality hits. “Ooooh my goooodneeess! What was I thinking?!?
...
The road ahead is longer than expected, but there is only one way to go– onward!”

Let's down a bottle to this toast.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby GraveI » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:14 pm

HdM wrote:If the guardian of magic isn't supposed to be defeated, why is it there? I did assume that maybe with the right combination of gods and items, it can be slain. For instance, Taurog could provide several layers of death protection. If you are able to make ~100 dmg per hit it might be possible to kill it.

Anyway, I'm kind of stuck on the Indomitable. He has 200+ Hitpoints, makes decent damage and has 50x Death protection. Seriously, 50 times? Even if I use Poison, bludtopowa and burndayraz, I'd need like the whole map just to regenerate the mana to kill him (let alone the fact that I need to get to at least level 7 before doing that.)


You need to do something to him, but it isn't an execution. If you really want direct spoilers I'll send them via pm so as to not spoil it for others :).

Have you had more luck since the mini content patch? The class specific dungeons that open up have some tasty new rewards, though a couple of them were bugged last I checked.

edit
New patch seems to have fix the buggy wards.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby Fledermaus » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:15 pm

GraveI wrote:If you really want direct spoilers I'll send them via pm so as to not spoil it for others

There are also spoiler tags
Spoiler:
:o
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby GraveI » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:09 pm

Real CP moment for me there.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby Vladimer » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:17 pm

penis!
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:19 pm

Or as erwt would say, "nigger penis!"
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:59 pm

They say the angry nigger penis is a scary monster lurking deep down a dungeon.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons Closed Beta

Postby RageAgainstVoid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:17 pm

You twats.
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